Mastering Retirement Cash Flow: Understanding Income

On This Episode


Get ready for part two of our Retirement Cash Flow series! This time, we’re diving into the income side of the equation. In our first two episodes, we tackled the ins and outs of your expenses in retirement. Now, it’s all about understanding the crucial role of income analysis. We’ll uncover the secrets of guaranteed income versus the uncertain stuff and shed light on the consequences of retiring without a clear income plan. Don’t worry if you’re feeling lostwe’ve got your back with practical solutions and expert guidance. Tune in and take charge of your retirement cash flow!

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PFG Private Wealth Management, LLC is an SEC Registered Investment Advisor. Information presented is for educational purposes only and does not intend to make an offer or solicitation for the sale or purchase of any specific securities, investments, or investment strategies. The topics and information discussed during this podcast are not intended to provide tax or legal advice. Investments involve risk, and unless otherwise stated, are not guaranteed. Be sure to first consult with a qualified financial advisor and/or tax professional before implementing any strategy discussed on this podcast. Past performance is not indicative of future performance. Insurance products and services are offered and sold through individually licensed and appointed insurance agents.

Here is a transcript of today’s episode:


Welcome into this week’s edition of the podcast. It’s Retirement Planning – Redefined with John and Nick from PFG Private Wealth, back with me again to talk about mastering retirement cash flow. So we’re going to dive into the income side of the equation here a little bit on these things that we need to discuss, and go through this crucial role of income analysis. And we’ll talk about, hopefully, some ways to highlight some points to think about when it comes to making sure you’ve got that cash flow taken care of. Because clearly, we’ve got to have income in retirement when we’re no longer getting those paychecks. So that’s on the docket this week on the show.

Once again, guys, thanks for being here. John, what’s going on buddy?


Oh, not too much. Just starting to get this Florida heat hitting me and we’re only about a month into it, but I think I’m already tired of it.


Already tired of it? Yeah, you got a ways to go if that’s the case.

What about you, Nick? How are you doing, my friend? I know you’re doing a little moving. Moving’s always fun, right? You getting that all worked out?


Yeah, yeah. Well, luckily the move wasn’t too bad, but pretty much settled in and I got a little bit of break from the heat in July after going up north for a little bit, like I tend to do during the summer.


Oh, yeah. Although it’s been hot everywhere. It was probably hot up there too, wasn’t it?


It was, it was. But it was, for sure, cooler and the humidity less.


Yeah. That’s the kicker. Yeah.


We definitely had some warm days for sure, but I do enjoy being able to go on the fresh water up there, because I don’t do fresh water in Florida. And it’s not like I go to the beach that much anyways, but the water at the beaches here right now is just insanely hot. It’s not even worth going in.


It’s like you get in the bathtub.


Yeah, yeah. It’s ridiculous.


You think, “The ocean! I’m going to cool off.” No, you’re not. But yeah, well, good. I’m glad you guys are doing all right.

So let’s get in and talk about this cash flow thing here a little bit. Why is understanding income, guys, in retirement critical for the stability of your financial strategy, and what could happen if you don’t have that clear picture?


Yeah, so I was actually having a conversation with a client earlier today and really kind of emphasizing … We emphasize this with our clients quite a bit, that it’s super important to have income. Obviously, income is king in retirement, but not completely in lieu of liquidity, of having other funds.

So this one client had good direct income sources and then had a decision to make on a pension, on whether to lump sum, roll over or take it as an income. And because of the overall financial strategy, for her it made sense to take lump sum, roll it over into an IRA. And that would kind of give her the balance of having assets that she can dip into, versus just a stream of income that would limit her on other things.

Creating that balance is different for every single person, but we really try to emphasize trying to make sure that you understand the different forms of income, and balancing that with making sure that you have access and accounts that are invested, but are also liquid.


Yeah, okay. I mean, that makes sense, clearly. And so, when we’re thinking about the stability of income streams, John, what are some examples of different sources? I mean, there’s some that are pretty obvious, but we want to make sure we have more than just one, clearly. So what are some of the things to think about?


Yeah. You definitely want to analyze where the money’s coming from. I know the last podcast, we were talking about expenses, and that’s really where you start, is getting to understand, “Hey, how much am I spending?”

And the next step is, okay, now that I’m spending this, where’s my income coming from to cover those expenses? And you want to make a clear picture of understanding what your income sources are, because the biggest risk going into retirement is making sure you do not outlive your money. And part of that is understanding, “Okay, where is my income coming from? And how do I make sure that I maintain my lifestyle without running out at age 80 years old, and now all of a sudden I’m looking to get a job at 80.”


Yeah, nobody wants to do that. So we’re talking pensions, right? IRAs, 401(k)s, social security, annuities, so on and so forth, things like that. Is it advisable to try to rely more heavily on one versus the other? And I think for many years, John, people would kind of say, “Well, social security’s going to make up half or more”, but I don’t know that that’s the reliable source we want to go with anymore. What do you think?


Definitely not, no. Especially with … Not that anyone’s done this yet, but a lot of talk of updating the social security program, cuts and things like that. You definitely want a good balance of retirement income sources, because if, let’s say, there was an update to social security, you’d want to have something in your back pocket where you can say, “Okay, that’s okay, that’s not going to affect me too much. I can pull from this income source.”


And things like understanding … One of the things that we walk people through as far as if they’re taking distributions from their retirement accounts, as they’re leading up to retirement, going over the whole concept of a safe withdrawal rate, being around 4%, maybe 4.5%. Rates are a little bit higher, but we don’t know how long they’ll stay that way. That helps people get a little bit of a grasp of how much money they can take from their investments safely, and look to make sure that any other sources kind of fill in the gap.


Let’s talk a little bit about some of those guaranteed sources versus non-guaranteed, Nick, I’ll let you kick this off for a second here. What is a guaranteed income and what’s the difference between that versus non-guaranteed?


Sure. The way that we would look at something such as the term “guaranteed income”, although there are issues with social security for the most part, we look at that as a guaranteed income source. That may be something that we toggle down as far as the percentage that they would receive, but we would look at that as a guaranteed income source. If they implemented an annuity strategy, dependent upon the type of strategy that it is, that could be considered a guaranteed income source. That would be something. It’s always important to point out to them that, although the history is pretty strong for insurance companies, when it’s an annuity, the guarantee is provided by the insurance company itself. So that’s something that’s important to know. Pension plans are usually considered pretty safe and a guaranteed source of income.


Yeah. I mean, non-guaranteed is going to be … I mean, when we think about a normal 401(k), right, where we’re just pumping money away, but unfortunately, if you’ve got it weighted in the market or things of that nature, it’s not necessarily guaranteed. If you’re risking it, by having exposure to the markets, then that’s where that non-guarantee comes from. Correct?


Correct. Yeah. For example, the conversation I had earlier with the client as far as … Because the question that she had was exactly that. Like, “Well, hey, if I do this lump sum rollover, is that guaranteed like the pension is?” And of course the answer is no. But I also did kind of point out to her, and this was somebody that doesn’t have a spouse but has kids, that, hey, this single life option is guaranteed for your life. But if you pass away within five years, you haven’t even gotten close to the lump sum balance and nothing would pass onto your children. So that’s something else that can come into play, where the word “guarantee” can be tricky, because it can guarantee certain aspects, but not others.


Right, yeah. And so John, listeners have probably heard of things like paycheck versus playcheck, right? So if we’re talking about explaining, and as you mentioned, we did some expenses on the last show. If you can walk through some of the ways that we might do that.

I would think that we would want to try to use our guaranteed income sources to cover, which would be our paychecks, to cover all the have-to-haves in life. And then we use the non-guaranteed, possibly the playcheck side, as the fun items. I guess every situation is different, but is that a simple way to break that down?


Yeah. So your paycheck would be associated with your fixed expenses, the things you need. Your necessities, things that you really need to make sure that are covered. Taxes, groceries, things like that, that you cannot do without.


Rent. Electricity.


Yeah, exactly. Your playcheck is obviously, as you mentioned, discretionary income, your wants. Let’s put it that way. And what we do when we’re doing the plan, and everyone’s situation’s different of course, but we’ll have a lot of people that, let’s say they’re very conservative and they just say, “Hey, I want to make sure that my paycheck items are covered on a guaranteed basis. That no matter what, I want to make sure I have this covered, so I stress a little bit less about what’s going on with the markets.”

And we can adjust the plan to basically make sure that happens for them. And then what we end up doing is, anything that’s tied to fluctuation, whether it’s the market or anything else, or rents, then it’ll be the playcheck scenario where, “Okay, this is going to cover it.” And let’s say where that comes into play is, if a year is down in the market or interest rates drop, well, all right. Maybe that specific individual might not do as much in discretionary spending in that given year.


Yeah. And Nick, maybe depending on how you’ve saved for life or how your setup is, maybe you have a pension or not, there’s a possibility that you could have your paycheck cover everything that you need in retirement, or most of it, and you’re really just using those accounts that you’ve built up, your 401(k) or your IRA or something, as something to leave to heirs.

So I mean, there’s lots of options out there, lots of strategies. It just really comes back to, what have you done and what kind of a saver you been, and so on and so forth.


Yeah, that’s absolutely correct. And for clients that we have that did retire with maybe a substantial pension, and they’ve been a really good saver, and they don’t really dip into those investments, we definitely put together … And their main objective is to leave money, we can work together and put together strategies to try to do that as efficiently as possible and that sort of thing.


Yeah, because a lot of people will say, with RMDs for example. I mean, I can’t count on one hand or both hands how many advisors I talk to that have clients saying, “Yeah, I got to take this money out for the RMD and I don’t need it. What am I supposed to do with it?” But you have to do it, right?


Exactly. So it’s like you got to take that hit from a tax perspective, but the money could always be reinvested, it can go into a different sort of investment vehicle. There’s a way to continue to have it grow. Some people will use RMDs to fund a permanent life insurance policy, to kind of shift money from a taxable inheritance to a tax-free inheritance, that sort of thing. So it just kind of depends upon, just like anything else, the overall situation and the factors that are specific to their plan.


Gotcha. Well, John, let’s finish off with this. So, any strategies for maximizing, maybe some non-guaranteed income? Because we often think about, or hear, John, stuff like, “Hey, get your social security maximized, run a social security analysis, make sure that you’re getting all that you can there.” But how do we do something similar, I suppose, in the non-guaranteed space?


Yeah. So this will be where, I’ll give you a scenario. If we’re doing a plan for somebody and all they have is social security and there’s no other guaranteed income, and let’s just assume this person’s conservative, and they have a decent nest egg where we could look at it and say, “Okay, what we could do is, from the investment portfolio, whether that’s a 401(k) or IRA or a Roth IRA, whatever it is, we could pull some money out of there, put it into one of these annuity companies that provide a guaranteed income”, and of course, disclosure based on their paying ability.




And from that we can say, “Okay, here’s your social security. And based on the plan, we feel that together we come up with this number, you should have x amount of guaranteed income on top of social security.” And we can basically take a chunk out of the investment portfolio and put it into one of these annuity products to give, in essence, some guaranteed income.

And what that typically does, it’ll provide the person with a little bit of peace of mind where they say, “Hey”, back to that scenario of paycheck and playcheck, “I know that my paycheck items are now covered and I feel a little bit more secure about what’s happening.”


You’re kind of creating your own pension.




Yeah. Okay. And again, for some folks, Nick, that’s where the strategy might play off. Because some people, obviously, especially when you think about the annuity term, some people are game to learn, some people are very hesitant because they’ve heard whatever it is that they hear. But it could be an option for folks who don’t have a lot of other resources to tap into, especially if you’re going to do something like a fixed index where you’re going to tie it to an indices. And that way you’re kind of experiencing some of the upside, but you’re also having some of that protection on the downside, so that it’s not quite as non-guaranteed as it could have been if you just left it straight in the market. Is that fair, is that accurate?


Yeah, annuities are always a subject that can be …


It’s a hot topic.


Maybe volatile, yeah, hot topic sort of thing. And the way that we tend to approach the subject is, there are so many different options when it comes to annuities. There’s kind of dividing up the decision-making process between strategy and then implementation.

So what I mean by that is, oftentimes, integrating in an annuity strategy for somebody can make sense to really dovetail into what John talked about. “Hey, we’ve got an income gap that’s needed of maybe $15,000 to $20,000 a year, and hey, we can carve out this amount of money and cover that.” And then we’ll see issues arise in the implementation, where the advisor that they had worked with uses a product that is maybe super expensive or the guarantees are not good, or it’s been misunderstood or mis-sold, or the sales charge period’s a really, really long time. So the implementation is poor, and that oftentimes sets off the red flags and that sort of thing.

So just like anything else, we would look at it and we tell people upfront, “Hey, this might be a strategy that makes sense for you, it may not. We think our job is to explain to you how it works so that you understand it, so that you can say yes or no. And then we move forward with whatever you feel comfortable with.”


Yeah, so sometimes you may have to create some alternate sources using life insurance products or different things that are out there. But again, each situation’s going to be different, so you want to identify what kind of income sources you need and then where you’re going to be getting them from.

So if you need some help, as always, make sure you’re talking with a qualified professional, like John and Nick, before you take any action on anything you hear from our show or any other show. You always want to see how it’s going to relate to your unique situation. Obviously, we’re all affected by the same kind of things; we’re going to have expenses in retirement, we’re going to need income in retirement. But how you break that down and how you’re able to utilize the things that you’ve done through your life, are going to be different from person to person.

So, get yourself onto the calendar, have a conversation with John and Nick at That’s That’s where you can find them online. And don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast on Apple, Google, or Spotify, whichever podcasting platform app you like to use.

Guys, thanks for hanging out. As always, I appreciate your time. For John and Nick, I’m your host, Mark, and we’ll catch you next time here on Retirement Planning – Redefined.


Mastering Retirement Cash Flow (Part 2): Understanding Changing Expenses

On This Episode

On this episode, we will continue our conversation on what expenses may change when you enter into retirement.

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PFG Private Wealth Management, LLC is an SEC Registered Investment Advisor. Information presented is for educational purposes only and does not intend to make an offer or solicitation for the sale or purchase of any specific securities, investments, or investment strategies. The topics and information discussed during this podcast are not intended to provide tax or legal advice. Investments involve risk, and unless otherwise stated, are not guaranteed. Be sure to first consult with a qualified financial advisor and/or tax professional before implementing any strategy discussed on this podcast. Past performance is not indicative of future performance. Insurance products and services are offered and sold through individually licensed and appointed insurance agents.

Here is a transcript of today’s episode:


Mark: Back here for another episode of the podcast with John and Nick from PFG Private Wealth. On Retirement Planning Redefined, we’re going to get back into our conversation from the prior episode about cashflow. We went through some categories, housing, work stuff, healthcare, taxes, so on and so forth, on how those expenses will change either to the plus or the minus, depending on our setup. Well, this is the time to talk about the setup. So as we are assessing our retirement expenses, we’ll break these down into a couple of categories. So we’re going to talk about those with the guys. John, welcome in buddy. How you doing this week?

John: Hey, I’m doing all right. How are you?

Mark: Hanging in there. Doing pretty well. How about you, Nick?

Nick: Pretty good. Staying busy.

Mark: Staying busy and enjoying. So we’re taping this before the fourth, but we’re dropping this after the fourth, so hopefully you guys had a good fourth? Nick, you probably went up and saw family, yeah?

Nick: Heading up north to just, yeah, extended family and friends. That fourth week makes it an easier week to get away because everyone’s doing stuff anyways.

Mark: Yeah, yeah. It’s always funny when we have the holidays and we’re kind of taping the podcast ahead of time because then drop it because we’re not around, so sometimes I get confused on my dates. So yeah, again, we’re talking about this before the fourth about what we’ll probably will be doing on the fourth. So John, are you on grill duty? Because I know I am. I’m stuck on it.

John: No, no. My brother’s forcing me to have a cookout at my house, so I told him if I’m providing the house, he’s the one on grill duty.

Mark: Okay, that’ll work.


John: He’s visiting from Boston, so he’s excited because my other brother’s down here and my sister, cousin, and actually the best man in his wedding is married to my sister, so he decided to come down.


Mark: So Marketing 101. So the second you said Boston, all I hear is these Sam Adams commercials right now, “Your cousin from Boston.” Every freaking time I hear Boston, that’s the first thing I think of. Or Sam Adams beer, I go right there. All through the hockey playoffs and NBA playoffs, I kept seeing those commercials so it’s embedded in my brain. But hey, that’s the point of marketing, right, is to be those little earworms, so you go out and buy whatever it is that you go out and buy. And speaking of that, that’s my transition into the must haves versus the nice to haves. So if we’re talking about those accounts, those different categories that we went through on the prior episode, guys, how do those things now play into for our cashflow? Again, cashflow is the conversation wraparound, it’s the wrapper of this whole endeavor. We need to break this down. And do you guys do this with clients? Is it something you encourage them to do, because everybody’s individual needs and wants are going to be a little bit differently, but do you break things up in the must-haves versus the nice to haves?

Nick: I would say to a certain extent, we do. We kind of list basic expenses and discretionary expenses.

Mark: So give us some musts. What’s the musts?

Nick: So obviously housing, healthcare, food and groceries, some form of transportation, whether it’s one vehicle, two vehicles. Getting rid of debt. Those are all things that are obviously needs. [inaudible 00:03:02]

Mark: Life essentials, right?

Nick: Yeah, for sure, for sure. Depending upon the people, some things are discretionary. I would say most of the people that we work for can’t afford to have some sort of traveling in retirement.

Mark: Yeah, so is two trips a year or is it five trips a year? That’s kinds how it starts to change?

Nick: Yeah, exactly. Or even a big trip every X amount of years. So like a baseline travel budget of X, and then let’s add one of the things that we commonly do is, let’s say the travel budget is $6,000 a year from a baseline standpoint, and then every three years they want to do an additional trip of another 6,000, that’s one trip. And so we can scatter that in throughout the plan and show them what it looks like and toggle that on and off. And with how we do planning, we can show them the impact of doing something like that and what it does to their plan. So for the higher tier, nice to have. For discretionary expenses, we will use our planning software and kind of show them, Hey, here’s the impact on your plan if you want to do that. Because we always preface everything, it’s telling people that it’s your money, we’re not telling you how to spend your money or what to do with your money, our job is to show you the impact of the decisions that you make.

Mark: That makes sense, yeah.

Nick: So let’s arm you with that information so that you understand if you do these things, then let’s make an adjustment accordingly. And for sometimes it helps them put into perspective where not everything is a yes or a no. And what I mean by that is, well, let’s just say that there’s two lifetime trips that they wanted to really do, and so they like to have a bigger travel budget, but really when you boil it down, it’s like, okay, I want to make sure I go to these two places. So we make sure that we can accomplish those and make adjustments elsewhere. [inaudible 00:04:58]

Mark: Yeah, because the must … I’m sorry to cut you off, but I was thinking about this as you were saying it. The must-haves, like the housing, the health, food, you’re not going to have any kind of discretionary wiggle room. Well, you don’t want to. Now you could say, okay, we’ll eat less food, or something like that, but that’s not the goal in retirement, you don’t want to go backwards. So the place typically we do make some adjustments in the cuts are in the nice to have categories.

Nick: Yeah, and usually it’s almost more of a toggle where even to a certain extent of, we’ve had conversations where, hey, if things are going really well in the markets and we’re able to take advantage and take a little extra money out in years where things have gone well, that’s kind of the impetus to do this sort of thing.

Mark: Kind of pad the numbers a little bit.


Nick: Yeah.

Mark: John, let me get you on here for, besides the expenses we covered, some of the things we went through, what are some contributing factors that will affect cashflow problems that you guys see in retirement? So all these different things, whether it’s healthcare, housing, whether it’s whatever, give me some bullet points here for folks to think about on things that can, not in a category per se, but like outside effectors, outside influencers, that can really cause us cashflow problems in retirement.

John: The number one I’d say, concern for most people going through retirement is longevity. How long does my money need to last?

Mark: And that’s the great multiplier, right? Because if you live longer, it makes everything else go up.

John: Correct. Yeah. So that’s one thing we look at, and we do plans. We’re planning for age 100, and we’ll always get people like, well, I’m not living that long. But the thing is, that’s always …

Mark: What if you do?

John: Exactly. So it’s like, Hey, listen, if you live to 100, guess what?

Mark: You’re covered.

John: Your plan looks good. You could live to 90 and the plan looks good. So we always plan for, we again, overestimate the expenses, overestimate the life expectancy,

Mark: And then you don’t have to live with your cousin in Boston, right?

John: Exactly. That’s right.

Mark: All right. What else besides longevity?

John: Another big one we’re seeing right now is inflation. Because with retirement, you’re not getting a paycheck anymore, so your ability to earn is now gone. So your nest egg is providing that income for you and social security. And keeping up with inflation, especially the last few years has been a challenge for quite a few people. And mostly I would say for me, I’ve noticed my food bill has gone up drastically in the last couple of years, more than anything else is really. Because we talked about musts and nice to have, if trips go up, you could say, all right, I’m going to go on a little bit lesser trip, or not go as much, but you know, you got to eat and you got to have healthcare. So those things there are big ones to really consider going into retirement and to be aware of, is the plan [inaudible 00:07:42]

Mark: Yeah, a friend of mine, for Memorial Day, we were talking about cookouts earlier, so we got July 4th, you’re probably hearing this after July 4th, but how much did it cost you to buy this stuff? So a friend of mine posted a picture around Memorial Day that he bought three steaks, and he lived in the New York area, Nick, actually. And the tag on the thing was like 60 bucks for three steaks. It was like, holy moly. And I know different parts of the country are more expensive than others, but it was just where I’m at, it was like, wow. And they weren’t like that impressive of a steak. So to your point, you got to eat.

Nick: To be honest with you, I think there’s a little bit of …

Mark: Price gouging.

Nick: … ridiculousness and price gouging going on right now from the perspective of a lot of different areas. I just got my six months notice on my car insurance, I’ve been complaining to everybody about it. One vehicle, no accidents [inaudible 00:08:34]

John: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Nick, this isn’t a therapy session, right?

Mark: Well remembered, well remembered, John, from the prior episode. Very good.

Nick: Yes. I drive probably 7,000 miles a year at the most and paying almost $2,500 a year for car insurance. But the crazy part is that, so okay, if it’s always been high, that’s one thing, but two years ago when I had switched companies, it was about 1,700. So again, we take …

Mark: Inflation.

Nick: Do the math on that. I’m sorry, but 50% is not inflation, there’s some 50% in two years and it’s kind of wild. And then even just going, the area that we’re in has been massive growth in this area, but even what the restaurants are charging, and it’s just inflation impacts different areas differently.

Mark: It’s an excuse. I mean, just like anything, we’ve turned it into excuse, just like the supply chain problem issue. A friend of mine was trying to get his RV worked on and they were like, well, we’re still having supply chain issues for a valve. And it’s like, really, a valve on an RV, it’s been three years. I don’t know if supply chain issue really holds in that argument, but if companies are dragging their feet or employers, somebody’s just taking long, that’s just an excuse. And I think that’s the same thing with the inflation. Is it real? Yes. But to your point, are some of these numbers really truly justified? But they can use that, well, inflation’s bad. That’s the excuse they use in order to hit you with a 50% increase.

Nick: Yeah, and I’d say from a planning perspective, because people get concerned about that from a planning perspective, and saying, well, hey, we had much higher inflation last year than we did in our plan moving forward, and [inaudible 00:10:27]

Mark: Are we going to be okay to survive it, yeah.

Nick: Yeah, and the easiest way that we mitigate that from a planning perspective is we reprice current expenses. So in other words, repricing the current expenses allows us to take that into consideration, the increases that we’ve had, and then use more normal rates moving forward, which is how you more accurately display that from a planning side of things.

Mark: Gotcha. All right, John, so you hit us with longevity and inflation as a couple of areas that can contribute to cashflow problems. Give me a couple more before we wrap up this week.

John: Investment returns is another spot, depending on what type of plan you do or type of planning, if some people will really have their income depend on what their portfolio is returning for them.

Mark: So we’re talking about sequence of return risk, kind of thing?

John: Yeah. So if you having a down year and there’s not as much income coming in from your portfolio, well that could ultimately affect your cashflow. Or if it’s a down year, and we go back to longevity of, Hey, how long is my portfolio going to last, just have a 20% dip in the market, you’re going to be a little concerned about pulling out in that period of time, because once you pull out, you know, you realize those losses, and there’s no more recovering [inaudible 00:11:41]

Mark: Yeah, it’s a double way, it’s the market’s down and you’re pulling money out. So the truth that makes the longevity factor interesting. Okay.

John: So one more thing on this. This is really important, and especially what we’re seeing in the last couple of years where you have some type of plan where if you are dependent on that, you have almost like a different bucket to pull from in a time like this. So you really want to position yourself to be able to adapt to downturns in the market which could affect your income.

Nick: One of the things, and I’ve been having this conversation quite a bit lately, is that previous to last year, for the dozen years leading up to that, rates in return on fixed or cash and cash equivalence was so low, you couldn’t get any return on that money, that really people shifted predominantly, or at least in a large way, to take more risks, meaning more upside, so more heavily on the [inaudible 00:12:39]

Mark: Well, because the market was going up too. We get addicted to that, so it’s very easy to go, well, it does nothing but climb, it’s done it for 12 years in a row, so let’s keep going, right?

Nick: Yeah. And a little bit of that’s a circle where it’s part of the reason it kept climbing, is because people were saying, well, and not just, but it’s just a contributing factor where it’s like, well, hey, I’m literally getting zero return here. So inflation’s eating away at my money anyways, I might as well take a little bit more risk. And so earlier this year in the majority of our client portfolios, we took some money off the table because now we can get four to 5% in something that has no risk, and that lets us kind of at least take a deep breath, see what’s going on, get some sort of return, where most of our plans, we use five to 6% in retirement anyways.

Mark: Yeah, that’s a good point. You just got to be careful, right? Because we don’t know how long those rates will last either, so you don’t want to lock yourself into anything too hefty either, without making sure it’s the correct move for you. Especially, I’m thinking more like CDs for example.

Nick: Yeah. We still target things that are short term, that sort of thing. But for a retiree, even from the perspective of, let’s just use the million dollar number, there’s a huge difference between five years ago, where if you wanted to do a one year CD and you could get 0.8%, that’s $8,000 on a million bucks versus 5%, even just for a year, now it’s 50,000 of income. I mean, one is you can’t pay your bills, another one is going to be much more comfortable. So for a retiree, one of the sunny side or glass half full part of what we’ve been dealing with from an inflation perspective, is that at least there’s a little bit more return on safer money as we try to re-plan and readjust.

Mark: Yeah. No, that makes sense. So one more category here that I want to hit for just cashflow problems in retirement, John, you did longevity inflation and investment returns. I’m going to assume the fourth one’s probably just the emergencies, the things that life throws at you in retirement years?

John: Yeah, a hundred percent. Emergency funds, it’s [inaudible 00:14:44]

Mark: Got to have one.

John: … for that, because you just don’t know what’s going to happen.

Mark: Murphy’s Law’s going to happen, right?

John: Murphy’s Law’s been happening for the last three years. So basically a big one is healthcare expenses, which we touched on as a must have. So big health event could really dip into your emergency funds. Or again, especially here in Florida with the roofs, have talked to some clients and friends who basically were having homeowners insurance issues here, and then carriers are basically saying, Hey, for you to get renewed, you need a new roof. And all of a sudden it’s like, what? I just go, my roof’s fine. It’s like, well, it’s outdated, you know, you need a new one, or else [inaudible 00:15:24]

Mark: And so they’re not covering maybe the full cost or some of the cost, I guess, but they won’t insure you.

John: I had some friends actually get notices saying, your roof’s too old. If you don’t replace it, we’re dropping coverage.

Mark: Oh geez. Okay, yeah.

John: So that’s an emergency expense.

Mark: Definitely.

John: Roofs aren’t necessarily cheap, so important to have an emergency fund because like you said, Murphy’s Law, you have no idea what’s going to come up and you want to be prepared for that.

Mark: Yeah. No, that’s a good point.

Nick: The roof thing is pretty wild here too, because a lot of people have tile roofs down here. And depending upon the size of the house, a tile roof is going to cost you, what John? Between 50 and a hundred thousand dollars?

John: Yeah, 50 to a hundred grand.

Mark: Really? Holy moly.

Nick: And so, yeah, and then if you’re in a neighborhood that has association rules and all these other things, it can get a little squirrely. So just understanding even little basic things like that, where especially people that came maybe from up north where it’s just shingle roofs and 10, 12 grand, 15 maybe, and then [inaudible 00:16:25]

Mark: Yeah, I was going to say, my metal roof was like 20, and that was like eight years ago.

Nick: Yeah. So there’s just things like that where we always very much emphasize having an emergency fund.

Mark: Yeah, definitely. All right, good stuff. Talking just cashflow issues, things to consider here on the podcast the last couple of weeks. So if you’re worried about the cashflow or you’re just worried about making sure your plan is accurate for the time of life you’re in, especially if you’re one of these folks that maybe got a plan, you’re like, ah, I got a plan put together like a decade ago, or whatever. Well, it’s not a set it and forget it, it shouldn’t be a set it and forget it, anyway. Even insurance policies, sometimes it’s very easy to get one and throw it in the drawer for 20 years and forget about it, but all those things can be looked at and reviewed and see if there’s a better way to put a strategy together. So if you need a first opinion or second opinion, reach out to John and Nick and the team at PFG Private Wealth. Find them online at That’s Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast on Apple, Google, Spotify, whatever the case might be. Whichever podcasting platform app you like, just type in retirement planning redefine in the search box. Or again, find it all online, For John, Nick, I’m your host, Mark. We’ll catch you next time here on the podcast. This has been Retirement Planning Redefined.

Mastering Retirement Cash Flow (Part 1): Understanding Changing Expenses

On This Episode

In this episode, we’ll explore many of the expenses in your life that might drastically change (one way or another) in retirement. We’ll break those expenses down further to see which ones are the top priorities and analyze some of the other factors that impact your cash flow in retirement.

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More Episodes

Check out all the episodes by clicking here.



PFG Private Wealth Management, LLC is an SEC Registered Investment Advisor. Information presented is for educational purposes only and does not intend to make an offer or solicitation for the sale or purchase of any specific securities, investments, or investment strategies. The topics and information discussed during this podcast are not intended to provide tax or legal advice. Investments involve risk, and unless otherwise stated, are not guaranteed. Be sure to first consult with a qualified financial advisor and/or tax professional before implementing any strategy discussed on this podcast. Past performance is not indicative of future performance. Insurance products and services are offered and sold through individually licensed and appointed insurance agents.

Here is a transcript of today’s episode:


Marc: Welcome back to the podcast. It’s Retirement Planning-Redefined, with John and Nick here with me to talk investing, finance, retirement, and mastering retirement cashflow, part one, is going to be the topic today. We’re understanding just changing expenses. We’re going to break this into really a two-parter here, obviously, by calling it part one. And we’ll do a little more focus on some of the other things on the next session. But for today, I want to explore some of the expenses in life and how they just change as we’re moving some things … as we’re moving from working into retirement. And things you guys see with your clients and how you work through that process for them. So that’s the topic today. Let’s get into it. John, first of all, how are you doing, buddy?


John: I’m doing all right. Getting ready for the summertime here.


Marc: If it happens. I don’t know what’s going on in the south. I’m in North Carolina, and we’ve had one 90 degree day, and it’s almost July. Totally unusual for us, so it’s very, very weird.


Nick: Oh, it’s hot here.


Marc: Yeah. It’s like two states seem to be in a weird spot. I don’t know what’s going on with the middle of the south here. It’s very strange this year. But Nick, I heard you chime in. How are you, my friend?


Nick: Doing pretty good.


Marc: Yeah. So you guys are sweltering, is that what you’re saying?


Nick: It’s definitely hot, yeah.


Marc: Well, kick a little this way because I don’t know what’s going on. It should be warmer here than it has been. So, very weird.


Nick: Well, I’ll trade.


Marc: Okay. All right. Yeah. Like today, it’s … well, we’re getting a ton of rain. Today, taping this podcast, it’s 72 for the high, and tonight’s overnight low is 58. That doesn’t happen usually in North Carolina in late July or late June.


Nick: Yeah. That is pretty surprising. That’s cool for North Carolina.


Marc: Very, very weird. So I don’t know, Mother Nature is off her meds, I guess. But what can you do? So let’s get into this conversation, guys, about changing cash flow, before I keep going down that tangent. I’ve got a few parts here I want to run through. What are some of the expenses that might drastically change one way or the other, either to saving us money or to costing us more money? Whichever way you guys want to take this, whatever you’ve seen with your clients. But let’s start it off with housing. I think housing is probably the number one expense in retirement. Correct me if I’m wrong there, but what do you think?


Nick: Yeah. I would say for a lot of people that maintain a mortgage past retirement, it’s definitely a significant monthly expense. One thing that we are seeing here with the tick up in interest rates over the last 12 months, we had had conversations with multiple clients from 2018 through 2021 about taking advantage of low interest rates and keeping their mortgage and that sort of thing. And for a lot of people, that makes them feel uncomfortable. But to a person, everyone that we’ve talked to that has done that, now that rates are where they are, they’ve been pretty happy about that decision and being able to take advantage and lock in those low rates. But for those people that just naturally, with the schedule mortgage that they had, and ended up paying off the mortgage by the time they retired, that drop in expenses is usually a big help. I would say one thing that jumps out that’s a reminder that we use for people is … especially because the homeowner’s insurance market here has now gone completely insane. Taxes and insurance don’t go away. So I can’t tell you how many times we’ve had a conversation where maybe somebody had a mortgage that was $3,000 a month, and they’re like, well, once I retire, that 3,000 a month is going to go away. And we point out, well, hey, about half of that is. The rest of it’s for taxes and insurance. So sometimes that drop in expense isn’t quite as much as they thought it was going to be.


Marc: Gotcha. Yeah. And it’s easy to do, even with downsizing, because the market’s been high. So it’s not always just lowering things just to go to that downsizing piece. John, what’s your thoughts there?


John: Yeah, I would say the downsizing is a big part of it. Not only if you downsize, you might be able to get some equity out of your house there. So if you downsize, buy a two or $300,000 house, you get some cash that you could do something with. But then you start looking at smaller house, less homeowners insurance, less maintenance costs, things like that, it could really be a pretty significant savings. Especially, as Nick mentioned here, with homeowners insurance. I think mine went up like 60 or 70% in a year, which was … … I’ve heard a lot of people. At first, I thought it was just me. And then I talked to some clients, friends, family, and it seemed across the board that it just shot up.


Marc: That’s hefty.


Nick: Yeah, there’s a lot people that are falling between five and $10,000 a year now. For homeowners insurance down here, it’s gone just wild.


Marc: Well, I imagine the big hurricane added a lot to that, right? That’s probably part of it. From last year.


Nick: Yeah, yeah.


Marc: Yeah, for sure. Insurance companies are like, we got to recoup some money. How are we going to do that? 60% hikes. All right, no more work stuff. Category two on the changing in expenses. I think we probably assume for the most part that no more work stuff means we’re going to save a little bit of money.


John: Yeah. So this is something that when we do planning, we definitely hit on. We have different categories of current expenses and then retirement expenses, and then we actually go one further and we’re looking at advanced age expenses. But this is one where you’re not commuting anymore, or at least to work. So depending on what your commute was, you could be saving quite a bit on gas, car maintenance expenses, things like that. And then the big one, I know when Nick and I worked in West Shore, was the lunch expense. Where it’s like every time for lunch it’s like, all right, where are we going? A good excuse to get out of the office and just get a change of scenery, you find you’re going out to lunch every day. That does tend to add up quite a bit.


Marc: Oh, yeah. You can spend some dough that way, for sure. So I think in this category, we feel like … and this one I think maybe drives a lot of people feeling like, oh, I’m going to spend less money in retirement. Right, Nick? I mean, this is one of those things. Well, I’m not doing all those things now, so I’m going to be saving money. But you’re also doing more stuff because you don’t have to go to work, so you may not save as much as you think.


Nick: Yeah. I would also say too, that this post-COVID work from home shift has prepared a lot more people to have a better idea of the expenses that have changed. We do have a fair amount of clients that used to commute, and no longer do. And so they’ve gotten a peek into what that looks like. And people are creatures of habit. Inevitably, they develop new things that they do, and usually there’s other expenses that replace previous ones, but-


Marc: There’s always something, right?


Nick: Yeah. But oftentimes, there are reasonable reductions in some of those work-related expenses.


Marc: Okay. Let’s go to healthcare. This one here, this one to me seems like this is not going to be going into the positive. This is not going to be putting money back in our pocket. More than likely, this is going to cost us more.


Nick: Yeah. I mean, for a big chunk of people, especially if they work at a company that has pretty good health benefits, and maybe they haven’t had their kids on their plan for a while, so it’s just them and a spouse or them solo. Oftentimes, the shift to what we budget for post-age 65 Medicare-related premiums, oftentimes it goes up for people. So we typically budget about $4,000 a year, and we have a more aggressive inflation number that we use on that. Oftentimes, people come in less than that, especially with a high deductible plan, those sorts of things. I just had this conversation the other day with someone, where they were going to have a pretty substantial jump. And they had worked for the same company for a long time, didn’t realize-


Marc: You mean a jump in the premiums?


Nick: Yes. Yep. They had worked for the same company for a long time. It was big company and had really good health benefits, and premiums were going to go up. So it can be a little surprising that way. If it’s somebody that’s shifting more from the perspective of, kids recently got off their plan and they’re cutting back on … maybe went from a regular health plan to a high deductible, those sorts of things. It can be a drop. But honestly, I see it more neutral or go up than I see it go down.


Marc: Yeah, definitely. John, taxes, let me hit you with this one. This is a big misnomer that’s been around for years. That when we get to retirement, our taxes are just generally lower because we’re not getting a paycheck, we’re not making as much. But more times than not, eight out of 10 times people are not in a lower tax bracket.


John: No. Typically, they tend to be in the same, if not, maybe a little bit lower. Because what you’re really trying to do when you do planning is you want to keep the person’s income where it was while they were working.


Marc: Right. You’re trying to fill in the … you’re shortening the short shortfall. You’re pulling from our assets to make up the shortfall based on Social Security or if you have a pension or whatever those kinds of things are. So you’re trying to keep the numbers basically the same, correct?


John: Exactly, yeah. So we are trying to keep the numbers the same. And we find a lot of people … I would say we find the majority of people have most of their money in pre-tax accounts. So what you’ll find is when you’re pulling out of the pre-tax accounts, you’re paying taxes on it. So this is really important when it comes to planning, where you … and we harp on this constantly. It’s a matter of setting yourself up to adjust. So maybe if you have some tax-free money, some after-tax dollars in some other accounts, you can really try to eliminate … or not eliminate. But try to lower what your taxes are going into retirement. And I’ll say one thing that happens quite often with clients, and this is only maybe a year or two that we see in retirement, is they just have a couple of years of just massive expenses where … we just had someone that’s purchasing a second home and they need to pull out of their retirement account. And all of a sudden, it’s like in that given year, that’s going to be a big tax hit. Or it’s a health expense. Or I’ve had other ones where they want to do a remodel on their house and it’s like, well, I got to pull money out of my account. And everything is pre-taxed, so they really get … we see a significant increase in their taxes in those years.


Marc: Yeah. And that’s why we want to get tax efficient, if we can. And maybe that’s worth looking at, trying to maybe move some money so we don’t have that tax time bomb sitting there waiting on us. Some different things. And speaking of actually that, Nick, let’s go to the next one here because you can chime in, it fits well with that. Is one of the biggest things we’re doing is pumping money, hopefully, especially the last 10 years of working, into our retirement account. Maybe that 401K that John was just talking about. And therefore we’re growing those dollars. And that is an expense that goes away once we stop working, we’re no longer feeding that.


Nick: Yeah. That deferral is usually the lowest hanging fruit of expenses or cash flow going down.


Marc: Money back in our pocket, kind of thing, right?


Nick: Yeah, exactly. That outflow is usually the biggest drop, especially if it’s … if you’re talking a couple that is essentially, maybe they’re both maxing out or pretty close to maxing out, they’re saving around 25,000. That’s $50,000 a year. Granted, that’s the money that they’re used to living on anyways.


Marc: Yeah. Because we weren’t seeing that. When we’re working, it’s going straight to the paycheck … or straight to the 401, for example. But now that we’re not working, we also don’t have the paycheck. So to me, is it truly a savings or is it a wash, because you weren’t seeing it before either? You know what I mean?


Nick: Yeah. I think for a lot of people it’s a wash. Realistically, in the day-to-day setting and from a lifestyle perspective, it tends to be a bit of a wash.


Marc: Okay. Yeah.


Nick: Yeah, it’s more of an on-paper reduction, more than anything.


Marc: Makes sense.


Nick: And in theory, when you start … if you want to nitpick a little bit. The money that you defer into those plans, you still pay payroll taxes on it. So there’s a little bit of a savings there. So that’s something that can factor in. And one of the changes that fits in with both the tax and retirement things is a lot of times at that point in time, they’re no longer claiming kids. Maybe the mortgage is paid off. So from a deduction perspective, there’s also a change as well from the standpoint of what they’re able to deduct versus what they can deduct in retirement.


Marc: Okay. And so what we’re doing is we’re talking about these categories here on understanding how our expenses are going to change, whether it’s to the plus or to the minus. And then we’ll talk a little bit more later on about how that’s going to affect us in our overall expenses and some things to cover in ways to be more efficient in that. So let’s continue on with a couple more categories here and then we’ll wrap it up for this podcast. So we went through housing, work stuff, healthcare, taxes, the retirement savings account when we’re no longer feeding the 401 animal. John, so you mentioned earlier travel and leisure, when you were talking about there’s different things we’re going to spend money on. So if every Saturday is the day I spend the most money, well, guess what retirement is?


John: Every day seems like it’s a Saturday.


Marc: It’s a bunch of Saturdays, right?


John: Yep.


Marc: It’s Groundhog Day.


John: The more time you have, you find yourself trying to fill the gap of what to do. And we see a lot of people that are, if they’re like golfing, they tend to be golfing a little bit more. Or fishing or whatever it might be. I’ll see-


Marc: But that’s the point, right? That’s the point of retirement. It’s what we’re striving for. But I think the scary part is, is if we haven’t budgeted for how much we’re … the activity. That’s when we can maybe shortfall ourselves.


John: Exactly. Yeah. That’s where it’s important where you’re doing a cashflow analysis for retirement. Like I said, we typically look at retirement expenses. We’ll look at what the person does for hobbies and try to estimate, okay, this is what we can expect. And you always want to go over the amount, you never want to go under.


Marc: I was going to ask you that. Yeah. You want to-


John: Yeah, you always want to go over, because-


Marc: … inflate it a little bit.


John: Yeah, exactly. I’ll tell you this … and my wife doesn’t listen to the podcast. When she’s at home more, I start to notice my Amazon bill goes up and packages end up at the door. So when there’s a lot more downtime, you tend to say, okay, what’s out there? Oh, let me go run to the store. Let me go do this real quick. And all those things add up to just added expenses, which fine-


Marc: Yeah. Well, sitting on the computer or the phone, you’re just like, I’m bored, I’m not doing anything. Next thing you know, you’re on some sort of shopping site because you’re like, I was thinking about this or that, or a new set of golf clubs. Right, it’s easy to do.


John: Home projects because Pinterest is giving you all these different ideas that you should be doing with your home. So yeah, all those things are up.


Nick: All right, John. This is not a therapy session.


Marc: No, but I mean he’s right, though. I mean, it totally … and people do that.


John: So Marc, that’s coming from the single guy right now.


Marc: Right. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. And you mentioned, you were talking about projects, DIY projects or Pinterest. We’re right in the middle of rebuilding … I’m building a billiards room here next to my office for the pool table. And it’s just, scope-creep has taken over. It’s like, oh, I can … I factored in the budget. I’m like, I could do it for this amount of money. And I’m way over budget. And that’s, again, if you’re retired … I’m still working. But if I was retired, that could be a real problem. If I let scope-creep get in there and I’m spending 25% more than I budgeted for this project, that could be an issue. So you want to make sure that you are inflating it, to your point. Puff those numbers up a little bit, just to be on the safe side.


Nick: Oh yeah, big time. I don’t think I’ve seen anybody come in under budget on anything in the last three years.


Marc: Yeah. And that’s with professionals, let alone doing it yourself, right?


Nick: For sure.


Marc: Okay. So that’s travel and leisure. So the last one here, last category, insurance. Many people, guys, walk into retirement saying, well, I don’t need insurance anymore. That’s also that old standard, as far as the financial services world. Well, who needs … why do you need insurance if your kids are grown and you don’t have to replace your income because you’re not worried about sending them to school. Or all that kind of stuff that you guys have heard probably a million times.


Nick: Yeah. So we’ll see … one of the most common insurances that go away, whether it’s at retirement or early in retirement, is life insurance. So we obviously emphasize the fact that a death early on in retirement is the bigger risk, especially if there’s outstanding debt, those sorts of things, versus later on in retirement. So sometimes we’ll have people that, maybe they’ve got three to five years left on their term policy and the premiums aren’t prohibitive. And we’ll just them keep the coverage because there’s still a mortgage, or just that additional money if something were to happen would be a big boost to the surviving spouse. But disability definitely goes away because disability insurance, by definition ensures your ability to work. So if you’re not working, then you’re not insuring anything. So that’s something that drops. And then some of these supplemental policies that maybe were provided by the employer, aren’t portable and you can’t take them with you anyway. So some of those things will drop off. So that’s definitely something that can be adjusted and adapted to reduce some of the costs.


Marc: Well, I think for every situation, insurance is one of those questions, John, that goes either way. Some people may not, when you guys are developing and looking through the plan, maybe insurance isn’t needed. But then again, maybe it is. Or maybe they’re using an insurance policy for the cash value policy side of things or whatever. So this one is one I think could go either direction.


John: It definitely could go either way, it really depends on the individual. And like we were just talking about here, each person, whatever is important to them will dictate whether your insurance is going to be going up or down. That’s really what it comes down to is, each individual, what they value and what they want to protect with insurance and what they’re … oh, okay. I’m okay without it.


Marc: Well, and that’s a good way to think about what we’re going to get into for the next podcast, is really assessing must-haves, nice-to-haves, things of that nature. And then how other aspects in the financial services world could affect those categories we just ran down. So we’re going to wrap it up this week. So again, these are just the expenses categories, and some major ones here to think about how they may change to the plus or to the minus with our cash flow in retirement. And we’ll be back next week with the second half of this conversation. So do yourself a favor, if you haven’t done so yet. Reach out to the team if you don’t have a strategy or a plan in place, and get started with a consultation and a conversation for yourself. You can find the guys at That’s, where you can get started today on a strategy for yourself. Reach out to John and Nick there. And guys, thanks for hanging out. I’ll see you next week … well, in two weeks on the podcast. Nick, have a good one.


Nick: See you.


Marc: All right, John. Thanks, buddy.


John: Sure.


Marc: And I’ll catch you later. We’ll see you guys here on retirement Planning-Redefined, with John and Nick.

Ep 58: Fore Your Retirement: What Golf Teaches Us About Financial Planning

On This Episode

Are you a golfer? Even if you’re not, the game of golf can teach us valuable lessons about retirement planning. For example, hitting a hole-in-one might be thrilling, but it won’t necessarily guarantee your overall success. And just like you need different clubs in your golf bag to play a round, you need a well-balanced approach to your investments in retirement. But perhaps the most important lesson from golf is the value of having a caddy. In retirement planning, a financial advisor can help you navigate the hazards and make the most of your financial “clubs.” Tune in to this episode to learn more about how the game of golf can help you plan for a successful retirement.

Subscribe On Your Favorite App

More Episodes

Check out all the episodes by clicking here.



PFG Private Wealth Management, LLC is an SEC Registered Investment Advisor. Information presented is for educational purposes only and does not intend to make an offer or solicitation for the sale or purchase of any specific securities, investments, or investment strategies. The topics and information discussed during this podcast are not intended to provide tax or legal advice. Investments involve risk, and unless otherwise stated, are not guaranteed. Be sure to first consult with a qualified financial advisor and/or tax professional before implementing any strategy discussed on this podcast. Past performance is not indicative of future performance. Insurance products and services are offered and sold through individually licensed and appointed insurance agents.

Here is a transcript of today’s episode:


Marc: Back in for another edition of the podcast. Thanks for hanging out with John and Nick here with me. Talk investing finance and retirement here on Retirement Planning – Redefined. We’re going to have a little fun with this podcast conversation, a little golf lesson and tie-in to financial planning or retirement planning. So this will be fun. It’s right up your guys’ alley. John, just a few weeks back, you guys had your annual golf tournament, and we had talked on the prior podcast, it went really well. I should have had this ready for you. We could have talked about it then, but that’s okay.


John: Yeah, yeah. It’s all right. If you want to ask questions about it, I can definitely tell you. It was a great event and we donated to Boys and Girls Club of Tampa Bay and Tampa Hope, which provides homeless shelter stuff. So, yeah.


Marc: That’s awesome. Yeah.


John: Yeah.


Marc: All right, so are you a big golfer yourself?


John: No, I’d like to be when I can get back at it, but I’m not very good. It’s been on my to-do list to take some lessons and be able to get on the course, but I like-


Marc: Well, you don’t have to be good to like it. I think that’s most people.


John: Yeah, no, I like going on the cart and driving around and hanging out with my buddies.


Marc: There you go. Nick, what about you? Are you a golfer at all?


Nick: I wouldn’t call it golf, personally, I go out and I hack for-


Marc: Yeah, there you go.


Nick: … about seven or eight holes-


Marc: There you go.


Nick: … and then I’m pretty much done at that point.


Marc: You’re a hacker. Okay.


Nick: Yeah, maybe now that I’m in my forties it’ll be something that I reengage with, but I enjoy being out there when it’s the nicer time of year, the cooler time of year here. It’s fun to hang out with buddies and go and be out, but it tends to be a four to five hour chunk. So it just depends on my mood, I guess.


Marc: Yeah, it certainly can be fun. It can be a frustrating sport, but it’s easy to do, and of course it’s obviously a very popular sport for retirees and pre-retirees, so it’s easy to do some financial analogies with it. Since you guys just had that golf tournament and raised some money, which, again, is fantastic. This’ll be a little fun podcast conversation. So let’s jump in and talk about some lessons we can get from the game of golf financially speaking, and we’ll just have a little fun with this. So hitting a hole in one. I’ve actually seen this done live in person. I was playing with some friends a couple years back and we were playing with…. we got put with an older couple and she won the day, she was killing us. She was right down the fairway every time. We were all left and right around the sun. She was awesome, but her husband, on a par three, popped one up and lo and behold dropped it right in the hole. It was just totally awesome to see that happen. Thinking about this guys, I think about getting lucky in the market one time. Because this guy’s attitude changed when he got the hole in one. He was super excited. He obviously was very cool, but you could see the rest of the day he felt pretty cocky about his game. I would imagine that from a market standpoint, that could be the same thing. You do really well on one investment in the market and you think, oh, I got this whole financial thing figured out, and it might not be that easy.


Nick: Yeah. It can be interesting. Just in general, and you alluded to it, people like to talk about their wins more than their losses. That’s something that we see quite a bit. It’s a similar concept as when you have a friend that goes to Vegas and they talk about how they hit on a certain thing, but not necessarily that they came back less money than they started. It’s that concept. The goal when we’re focusing on financial planning, retirement planning, that sort of thing, is a long, well-thought-out strategy that encompasses multiple decisions, builds in options for different scenarios and really is just more strategic than having a single goal in trying to necessarily get lucky.


Marc: Well, and John, I was going to say, I think most golfers would agree that a hole in one is a little bit of skill, but a whole lot of luck. Maybe that’s the same thing to be said for the market, but you can strategize properly with your retirement and not just be wishing for luck, I suppose, in retirement, right?


John: Yeah, yeah, you definitely want to have a strategy and a plan versus just rolling it all in one event, unlikely event really happening. So you want to make sure that you put together the strategy, and again, you’re just trying to hit, bring it to baseball, those singles and doubles consistently, versus always trying to go for the home run.


Marc: Well, like I was saying, the gentleman’s wife, at the end of the day, he got cocky because of that fairly early, and he clearly was going to beat the two younger guys that he was playing with that day, me being one of them. I think he felt like the day was his because of the hole in one. But she wound up winning the day from having and shooting the best round because she was consistent. To your point with baseball there, she was right down the fairway, 150 yards every time. She ended up just kicking our tush because, like I said, we were all over the map, somebody else’s hole and everything else from slicing and all sorts of good stuff. So consistency, while a hole in one is sexy, consistency is probably the better idea for a strategy. So let’s talk about clubs in the golf bag. This is a fun analogy to think about too. You’re probably not going to go play golf and go Happy Gilmore and just show up with a driver and a putter. You need some more things in there.


John: 100%. This goes with your investments. You can’t just have just one tool in the bag there. You definitely need to have different investment vehicles doing different things so you really hit your goals. In case with golf, you make sure you get the best score possible. Same thing with your retirement planning and investments. You want to have different investments. Here’s the term everyone hears, diversify. You want to have different investments in your portfolio, investment portfolio, and different investments overall, whether that be some fixed income stuff, and then especially nowadays with the rates being the way they are, CDs are definitely a great option right now. So you want to have the different irons, different drivers, different-


Nick: Yeah. One thing that people tend to obsess about is, “What’s best, what’s best, what’s best? Should I have this or should I have that?” So frequently our answer is, “Well, it depends,” and or, “Yes, all of the above,” and it dovetails into this where, “Sure, you do want to have some funds that are going to be pre-tax and also some funds that’ll be tax-free later on,” and really focusing on the fact that just because something is better right now doesn’t mean it’s going to be better later. So the ability to be able to adapt and pivot and adjust to whatever the scenario is, is super important.


Marc: Yeah, and that’s the point of, “It depends,” sometimes with that answer because while it’s not the flashiest of answers, because it’s not a set it and forget it. Your strategy is going to change. Just like the club you’re going to have to pull out of the bag may change. You may think it looks like a simple 7 iron shot, but as you start to look at it and evaluate a little bit more, you might realize that it’s not, you got to go with a different club. So different clubs do different things, different investments do different things. Having that arsenal, I suppose, at your disposal is really what you want to do, versus, again, like I said, just trying to be Happy Gilmore out there and use a driver and a putter only. Probably not going to go the way you want to go. That comes to the final one here for this little fun analogy, guys, is listening to a caddy. Now, granted, when a lot of us go play golf, we don’t have the luxury of having a caddy, but you may have some friends who you’re doing a foursome or whatever and they’re giving you some advice or things of that nature. And while you don’t want to ask your friends necessarily for financial advice, if you ever have got the chance to play with an actual caddy, it’s pretty freaking cool. A true professional can really make the difference. I’d say that’s an easy analogy to what you guys do.


John: Yeah, 100%. I will say having an advisor in your corner, just someone to talk to, ends up having… people end up making better decisions with that. Just go back to the most recent thing, COVID here, where I would say the first month of that was really calming people down and talking them off a ledge. I’ll tell you how many times we heard, “Oh, I’m so glad we got the chance to talk because I was getting really nervous and thank you for your time.” So just having that resource of someone to bounce some ideas off of or just talk things through, ends up in the long run helping someone out financially more than they realize.


Marc: Yeah, definitely. Again, it’s the little things. It’s not always just the Xs and Os, sometimes it is having that sounding board, “Hey, I’m thinking about this idea. What do you think?” “Okay, this is a good idea because X, Y, Z,” or, “This is maybe not a good idea because X, Y, Z.” So it’s certainly important to have those conversations and if you need some help, reach out to the team. Obviously, as always, they’re here to help you with this, to help you get to and through retirement. is where you can find them online., and drop us a line while you’re there, send an email in to the website if you’d like to have your questions answered. Of course, they’re going to certainly do that with each and every question, but we also take those from time to time here on the podcast. So yeah, let’s wrap up with one or two here guys. We’ll see how we can go, see how many we can get through. We got Claire, and she says, “I’m supposed to retire next month, guys, but I haven’t really done any planning at all.” Yikes. “I just realized that I still need to figure out Social Security options, pension options, Medicare options, and as well as what I’m just going to do with my time.” Wow. “Should I push my retirement date back until I figure this out?” Guys, that’s a interesting one and a tough one. Not trying to pick on her, but she’s done zero planning and thinking about retiring in a month.


Nick: Yeah, probably not a good idea. There’s two ways to address this. Well, what we would say to somebody in this situation is, “Okay, yeah, you need to focus ASAP on putting together a plan,” because usually when this happens, it’s because of anxiety of what the answer is going to be. It’s the concern that whatever the results are of the plan are going to say, “Hey, retiring is not a good idea,” or that the plan doesn’t look good or that sort of thing. So taking the action to do something is really, really important, and you can’t rewind time. So getting that plan in place. Would recommend holding off on the retirement until you can put the plan in place. Just there’s probably options in strategies that they’re not familiar with that can be put in gear sooner than later and could help to make that retirement more successful, because people’s ability to reenter the workplace after they have exited is often much more difficult than they realize.


Marc: Yeah, John, I’d say probably just call somebody, right? Get started. Don’t wait one more minute, right?


John: Yeah. Mistakes can be costly and it sounds like Claire has a lot of important decisions to make, especially with the Social Security and the pension there, one wrong move on that, you could be losing thousands of dollars, basically, is what I’m getting at.


Marc: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so you got to get a strategy, Claire. Do you need to push off retirement? You’re just not going to know until you figure the two… Her question is, “Should I figure this stuff out?” Yeah, get in, sit down with a professional and find out where you stand and they’ll be able to help you determine is retirement next month even possible? I guess my question would be, how do you know that you could retire next month? She says, “I’m supposed to.” Maybe they’re going to retire her from the job. Maybe she’s been told. I don’t know. It could be one of those types of things, but either way I would get in to see a qualified professional, ASAP, and of course John and Nick are here to help. So 813-286-7776. All right, final question here. We’ll do one more. Lee says, “Guys, I don’t understand the Social Security spousal benefit. My wife worked for about five years before we had kids and hasn’t worked since, but she does have some benefit of her own. What is she entitled to? How does it work?”


Nick: This is a good question, and the reason that we wanted to review this with people is because sometimes the tricky part with dealing with planning, retirement planning, is the jargon or the terms that people use. Sometimes they mix up the terminology and that can lead to mistakes, which can lead to big problems. In this case, from a spousal benefit standpoint, in general, people are eligible either for a benefit of their own based upon their own work history, and that is only valid if they have 40 quarters of work. So 10 years of work. Now, if they are married, and there are some additional scenarios, if they were previously married but married for at least 10 years and are divorced, there are some options on spousal benefits at that point. There’s so many different scenarios that if somebody’s situation is complicated, we highly recommend that you reach out to an advisor that’s familiar with this space. But in this specific example, the spouse working for five years is not going to be eligible for her own benefit. She is going to be eligible for a spousal benefit, and that spousal benefit is a calculation factored on the primary earner’s income and how long they’ve paid into the benefit and that sort of thing. So this is something that we would tell, “Hey, we can help with this scenario. The main information we’re going to need is going to be the Social Security statements, and then we have some software that helps us pick, show what those numbers look like. But the spousal benefit is going to be a factor of the primary income earner’s benefit amount.”


Marc: Okay. Yeah, so definitely can get very complicated. Thanks for sending the question in. Hopefully that helps you out, but definitely have a conversation with a qualified financial professional. Reach out to John and Nick to talk more about Social Security and eligibility and all those good things and how it plays into it. 813-286-7776 is the number to call, or stop by the website, That’s Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast on Apple, Google, Spotify, all that good stuff. As always, we appreciate your time. You can catch past episodes by subscribing or check out future episodes when they come out. Thanks for your time today, for John and Nick. I’m your co-host, Mark Kelly, and we’ll see you next time here on Retirement Planning – Redefined.

Ep 57: Retirement Expenses For Which You Forgot To Plan

On This Episode

Are you preparing for retirement but feeling confident that you have covered all the expenses? Well, think again… It turns out that many retirees overlook some crucial expenses that can leave them financially vulnerable. In this episode, we explore the retirement expenses that most people tend to forget, including skyrocketing medical bills, unexpected travel costs, taxes, and much more. We’ll discuss practical tips and strategies to help you plan for these expenses and ensure a secure and comfortable retirement.

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PFG Private Wealth Management, LLC is an SEC Registered Investment Advisor. Information presented is for educational purposes only and does not intend to make an offer or solicitation for the sale or purchase of any specific securities, investments, or investment strategies. The topics and information discussed during this podcast are not intended to provide tax or legal advice. Investments involve risk, and unless otherwise stated, are not guaranteed. Be sure to first consult with a qualified financial advisor and/or tax professional before implementing any strategy discussed on this podcast. Past performance is not indicative of future performance. Insurance products and services are offered and sold through individually licensed and appointed insurance agents.

Here is a transcript of today’s episode:


Marc: Hey everybody, welcome into the podcast. Thanks for hanging out with John, Nick and myself here on Retirement Planning Redefined as we talk, investing, finance and retirement with the guys from PFG Private Wealth. And this week we’re going to get into retirement expenses for which you might have forgotten to plan for, which certainly happens. So on this episode, we’re going to discuss some practical tips and strategies to help you plan for these expenses and maybe secure a more comfortable retirement. Guys, what’s going on Nick? How are you buddy?


Nick: Pretty good, pretty good. I got some friends coming into town next week and then family trickling in over the next month, so it’s going to be a hectic month.


Marc: Yeah, that’s not bad though.


Nick: That time of year.


Marc: There you go. And spring is upon us, so that’s always good. We’re into March, so that’s a good deal there. John, what’s happening buddy? How are you feeling?


John: I’m feeling okay. Getting there. Getting a little stronger each week so excited about that.


Marc: There you go.


John: But feeling pretty good. We just wrapped up our golf tournament, nonprofit charity golf tournament.


Marc: Oh, fantastic. Yeah.


John: And looking really good. It was a great time. Nick was out there helping me out because I couldn’t lift anything heavy, but it was a great turnout. And it’s year three and looking forward to year four. So.


Marc: That’s awesome. Yeah, fantastic. Always good to hear those success stories. So let’s share some things this week. Let’s get into the podcast here a little bit and talk about some expenses that we might encounter in retirement. And maybe we planned for them, maybe we haven’t. Hopefully we have. But let’s start with a big one obviously, medical expenses. I mean, typically they outpace normal inflation a lot of times. It seems like medical’s just constantly on the rise. So how do we address some of this stuff?


Nick: Yeah, what’s actually been probably at least most recently with a bunch of our clients, the dental expenses have been pretty wild. I know my parents have kind of run into this too. It seems like once you get into your sixties almost everybody has some sort of major dental work and it’s almost impossible to get out of there for less than 10 grand. So it’s interesting too because without going on a massive tangent, dental practices and offices seem to have really gotten down the financing aspect of things. And really they tend to run the businesses pretty tight and costs have gone up pretty substantially.


So yeah, those dental expenses can be a big deal. We tend to make sure that we have a fair amount of money budgeted each year for healthcare related expenses for clients and making sure that we’re allocating the right amount for insurance premiums in that sort of thing. But yeah, those numbers really do add up over time.


Marc: Yeah. They can get pretty staggering. I think it’s what is the average person what, $250,000, something like that in retirement and medical expenses. So I certainly can take off there for sure.


John, what about unexpected travel? Obviously that’s one that when we think about travel as part of our retirement strategy, but where would we find unexpected travel in that situation where it kind of creeps upon us and costs us more than we realize?


John: Yeah, so one thing we’ll always say is things are always going to come up, you can plan as best you can, but something’s always going to come up whenever life happens. So we’ve seen a lot of times where it could be funerals, long distance where people are having to go places they weren’t expecting to go, obviously. And just hotels stay, travel, whether they’re for a week or two, seeing some of that. Or caring for family members that don’t live in the state. So it’s traveling other sides of the country. We’ve seen that quite a bit.


Marc: I’d say, that’s probably a pretty big one, especially for as your retirees, you might have to go take care of a sibling or something who’s having a long-term care event, extended stay. I think my sister had to do that a while back as well. So that’s a great point.


John: And then there’s always the, which I think we’ve all experienced the destination wedding invite where it’s like, oh man, do I really want go to this place? And it’s just like, okay, all right, let’s start adding up the cost. And if it’s a family member, you typically feel obligated to go.


Marc: Yeah, so that’s good point.


John: Those are some of the top three we’ve seen in our practice.


Marc: Do I really want to go to Cabo? Yes. Do I really want to go for my niece’s wedding? No.


John: Sounds about right.


Marc: Yeah. or something like that. Right. So definitely some places where expenses can come up. The medical obviously certainly can get really costly, but then again, so can parental or child assistance. I mean, Nick, more people now are than ever are in the sandwich generation where they’re taking care of maybe an adult child to some degree, helping out and they’re also taking care of their own parent. That’s one thing I’ve heard about.


Nick: Oh yeah, yeah, so the child’s assistance thing, we saw it quite a bit like back in the years, immediately following the great recession, was kind of the first time I had seen that quite a bit where kids were getting out of school, graduating from college and having a hard time finding a job. So back to the parents and some help and that sort of thing.



And then we got that again in the COVID too.


Nick: Yeah, exactly. That’s what I was going to say. From the standpoint of when COVID hit, that was something that impacted quite a bit. The job market’s still pretty good for a lot of fields, but have definitely seen that. And I would say a lot of our clients are also entering into that period of time where there’s more assistance needed for parents. My grandmother’s been living with my parents for, I want to say over 10 years now, but she just turned 90 and now it’s becoming even tougher. And we hear about that quite a bit from clients. And then if their parents are out of town, that’s some that have brought them into town or they travel fairly regularly to go see them. Yeah, it’s a lot on the plate.


Marc: And that’s an expense that can really derail your retirement. I imagine thinking using your parents there as an example, if they weren’t prepared for 10 years of taking care of grandma, I mean that’s an added expense that you just weren’t planning for.


Nick: Yeah, there’s the financial aspect and then even from the standpoint of we are focusing for this on the financial side of things, but even from a lifestyle and mental health standpoint or even just your ability to be able to do the things that you planned and wanted to do, whether it’s travel, that sort of stuff. It can be difficult, for sure.


Marc: Sure. Yeah, definitely affects the family dynamic along with personal relationship and everything because it’s a full-time gig. It can be, for sure.


Nick: Oh yeah.


Marc: So a lot of times we are focusing on the expenses here, but that’s a good point to bring up as well. So planning and strategizing for those things that can maybe be overlooked or forgotten, certainly important. Taxes, John, is the next one. Now we got a plan for taxes, hopefully we’re doing that. But are we thinking about the possibility of a tax hike because it sure does seem imminent.


John: It does, doesn’t it? You figure with all the spending happening, at a certain point, taxes we’ll have to go up. But that is definitely one that I know we cover quite a bit in our planning is making sure clients are flexible and to adapt in an environment where if tax rates do go up, we really try to make sure people have the ability to adapt to the situation. But I will say this is often overlooked where it’s, oh, you’ll have less income. So your funnel, lower tax bracket is kind of what you normally hear, but it’s definitely something that you want to be able to adapt. So perfect example of this, having some tax free money into retirement where tax brackets go up, you can basically say, Hey, this next three or four, five years, I have at least some Roth IRA money I can pull from where it’s not going to really impact my lifestyle too much. But taxes go up 7%. That’s a big, big dip in your nest egg or your living, your lifestyle,


Marc: Especially if your income stays the same. So your income stays the same when your tax rates jumps from you said what, 7%? So let’s say we go from 25 to 32, that’s not so great, you’re not going to feel so good about that.


John: Yeah, and something else I’ll say we see quite a bit with this is where there’s big expenses in a given year. So we talk about, I know I think we’re probably going to touch on it later, but if there’s like a home remodel expense or whatever it might be, or we had the recent years with COVID, like, hey, I want to buy an RV or whatever it might be, it’s big purchases can also affect those where you might be pulling out 50, 60 grand extra in a given year and if all your money’s pre-taxed, that’s going to be a pretty big hit to you in that year.


Marc: And that’s a good point. So Nick, I know you’ve got a list of a few things to think about in that department from maintenance or repair. Now again, we could strategize for the RV, we could strategize for, and I think this is maybe the point people missed, you tell me if I’m wrong here Nick, but if you’re getting close to retirement and somewhere in retirement, you’re going to probably have to replace your roof, start planning for that so that it’s not an unexpected expense versus just going, oh well now we found out the roof is damaged and we need to repair it. That’s a little different. So I don’t know, what do you think?


Nick: Yeah, for sure. From a planning perspective, the way that we typical typically handle that is we have home maintenance and repair expenses on an annual basis and then we will oftentimes every X amount of years add in an extra bump so that we can show people how we model that out and try to factor that in and build that in. But yeah, absolutely. One of the things that I’ve seen too is I guess and this is definitely not for everybody, but there’s a fair amount of people that like to purchase vehicles cash and just not having the car payment. And that’s something that has been a transition for a bunch of clients where just kind of emphasize with them, they may keep a vehicle for 10 years and so when they do make that new purchase, if we’re taking money out of qualified retirement accounts to do that, you’ve got to take out X amount more and then that hits you from a tax perspective, where really stretching out the payment, taking advantage of lower rates that dealers often offer. Just even little things like that where you may tweak how you’ve spent the funds on certain expenses in the past to just take into consideration what your new reality is in retirement.


Marc: Yeah, definitely.


Nick: It’s important.


Marc: Yeah, if you strategize again, you won’t be caught off guard by some of these expenses that you didn’t plan for. But John, the last one, I mean we got caught off guard for sure on the last one. Many people don’t plan for inflation normally, even when it’s in a normal 2% or 3%, let alone what we’ve just been going through.


John: So yeah, the last couple of years have been interesting for inflation. In a normal environment, it’s obviously not this type of hike in a given year. I mean coming out of a pandemic and then obviously with the Fed raising rates the way they have been doing to try to combat some of that. So normally it’s pretty slow and then all of a sudden it’s like you go to the grocery store and it’s like, whoa, what just happened? I’m paying almost 20% higher for milk or whatever it might be. COVID definitely made things interesting with the supply chain, everything like that, which added to it, which we’re starting to see come down a little bit. But this is a big one that you definitely want to put into your financial plan and you want to stress test the plan saying, Hey, what if inflation does hit 2%, 3%? It’s something that we typically do as well. And if you’re working with somebody, you should do is different categories have different inflation rates. So one thing with medical is historically that has been higher than the normal inflation, which you said would serve around 2%. We normally inflate that about 4%. And if you’re planning to pay for, at this point, most people when they retire aren’t paying for kids’ education but might be paying for grandkids because that’s what they want to do. So you got to pay, that has a different inflation rate. So it’s cool to be able to adjust each category with a different inflation rate when you’re doing planning. So if that’s something you are working with an advisor, you want to ask that question, is the inflation rate you’re giving me kind of general over everything or are we actually putting different inflation rates on different categories?


Marc: That’s a great point.


Nick: And just to jump in here on this one too, obviously inflation has been in the news so much lately. One of the conversations that we’ve been having with people is that really from the standpoint of news, the inflation that they report on, what CPI is really such a specific bundle of goods. Anybody that’s been paying attention to expenses over the last five, six, seven years, they’ve been going up. And so just kind of reminding people that this is happening every year. We just get really mad about it every 15, 16, 17 years, over and over again, rinse, repeat. And so really making sure that they understand that. And also just to another take on the inflation side of things is when they’re looking out over the nest egg and the plan and they kind of look to see, all right, well, I’m going to have X amount of dollars in 20 years, or I’m targeting to try to have X amount of dollars in 20 years or at life expectancy and making sure that they understand, hey, is that in present value? Is that in future value? Because 20, 25 years down the road, that number can start to seem a little, if things are going well, like unwieldy or super optimistic when in reality it could be just when you use the right and when you look at it the right way it’s similar to where you’re at today and stuff like that. So just not having that false sense of security if it’s not warranted is always important. But yeah, inflation’s an important topic.


Marc: Yeah, I mean you got to plan for these expenses. Some things we can’t plan for, but many can, or at least we can try to somewhat strategize for things we think are going to happen because inflation’s always going to be there, tax rates are always going to be there. We don’t always know what they’re going to be, but then some of those other items we can certainly try to strategize for. And by not having the conversation, you’re certainly not doing yourself any favor. Let’s finish off with an email question, guys, whoever wants to take this one and we’ll wrap it up. Thomas wrote in and he says, “Look, we’re retiring in two years and plan to sell the house and move to the beach, and values are still pretty high in my neighborhood to sell the house, so I’m wondering if I should sell it now even though we’re not ready to move and just rent a couple years.” His overall question is, “It a bad idea to rent at this stage of life?”


John: Yeah, that’s a great question. This seems to be coming up quite a bit with what we’re kind of seeing happening in the housing market right now. I wouldn’t say it’s necessarily a bad idea to rent at this stage of life. I’d more look at it from what’s going on in the housing market, the economy. So that type of strategy right now could be a pretty big risk depending on what happens. Example, if you were to sell your house and anticipate buying in a couple of years. If house prices, again, who knows what’s going to happen, dramatically go up over that next two year period, you could be putting yourself in a really bad position financially depending on what happens. I talked to someone who actually did something like this during COVID where they said, Hey, house prices went up a little. It was right when the boom kind of started where they looked at it and said, house prices are going up. They’re really high. I think they’re going to go down like they did in ’08 and this gentleman sold and then two years later, I mean they kept going up.


Marc: Right.


John: So now basically he’s caught in a tough spot where he was renting for a couple of years and for him to get back into the same house he just sold, I mean he’s paying almost $200,000 more. That’s a big swing. So I don’t know if it’s worth a risk, let’s put it that way, to do that type of strategy because none of us have that crystal ball.


Marc: Yeah, it’s an interesting proposition. A friend of mine did exactly this, Thomas. So he sold his house at the peak actually about eight months ago. I guess maybe that was the peak in this area or that area. But yeah, he decided he was going to get an RV and just drive around camping for a while and he is waiting for the housing price to come down before he goes and gets another place. So he banked on that strategy. He feels like he made the right decision. He’s enjoying the RV time. But every scenario is going to be a bit different with this, to John’s point. So I think it’s always worthwhile to kind of crunch some numbers, run some numbers, get a strategy put together and just stress test some things. Not only just that question from the email this week, but just a general topic that we talked about this week. Have a conversation with a financial professional like the guys at PFG Private Wealth. Get onto their calendar, have a chit chat with them. Stop by the website, check it out at That’s to talk with John and Nick and the whole team at PFG Private Wealth. And don’t forget to subscribe to us on Apple, Google, Spotify, whatever platform you like to use. We appreciate your time, as always. Thanks for hanging out with us. For John and Nick, I’m your co-host, Mark. We’ll catch you next time here on Retirement Planning Redefined.