What The “Big Beautiful Bill” Means For Your Retirement Plan

On This Episode

Today, John and Nick dive into the Big Beautiful Bill and what its changes mean for retirees and pre-retirees as the year winds down. They break down updates to tax brackets, standard and senior deductions, SALT caps, and Roth conversion strategies, while sharing tips on avoiding common pitfalls. Plus, they touch on credits and deductions like charitable giving, auto loans, and solar panels to help listeners make the most of these changes.

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Disclaimer: PFG Private Wealth Management, LLC is an SEC Registered Investment Advisor. Information presented is for educational purposes only and does not intend to make an offer or solicitation for the sale or purchase of any specific securities, investments, or investment strategies. The topics and information discussed during this podcast are not intended to provide tax or legal advice. Investments involve risk, and unless otherwise stated, are not guaranteed. Be sure to first consult with a qualified financial advisor and/or tax professional before implementing any strategy discussed on this podcast. Past performance is not indicative of future performance. Insurance products and services are offered and sold through individually licensed and appointed insurance agents.

 

Speaker 1:

This week on Retirement Planning Redefined, still a lot of questions out there about the Big Beautiful Bill and what happened earlier this year and some of those changes. So, we thought we would talk about that and touch on that as the year is winding down here on the podcast. So, stick around. Let’s get into it. Hey, everybody. Welcome into Retirement Planning Redefined with John and Nick from PFG Private Wealth. Find them online at pfgprivatewealth.com.

 

Guys, I know it’s been around for a couple of months now, half a year or whatever, but still a lot of questions and things going on with the Big Beautiful Bill changes, especially as it affects retirees and pre-retirees. So, we thought we would dive back in and have a conversation on some of this and just maybe touch on some of the things you guys are still hearing a few months later and see if we can break this down a little bit for folks and help them out. John, how are you doing this week?

 

John:

Hey, I’m doing all right. Just getting ready for Thanksgiving here and just looking for some downtime right now.

 

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it’s right here upon us. Nick, you’re double whammy. You got Thanksgiving and then you got a wedding right after that. So, congratulations and happy holidays.

 

Nick:

Thanks. Yeah, it’s going to be a busy end of the year.

 

Speaker 1:

Yeah, for sure. Well, speaking of, let’s get into our topic here because there’s lot of stuff that’s happening and changes and whatnot. So, let’s just dive into some of the things and break some things down. The big piece obviously was that the tax brackets that we were under the TCJA since 2017 got extended. All year, we were wondering if that was going to happen as the year was winding down. This stuff was going to wrap up at the end of this year, but they extended it and they made it permanent. So, talk to me about that, whoever wants to take this. That’s interesting language and confusion for some people, but what’s your thoughts on the tax brackets being extended?

 

John:

Yeah, so the tax brackets from 2017 now remain in place where they were set to expire. So, they’re as permanent as I guess you could be when it comes to tax brackets-

 

Speaker 1:

To Washington.

 

John:

… to Congress. Yeah, exactly. So, obviously, Congress can make some changes at some point, but for right now, this is where we are. For retirees, important to take a look at historically where tax brackets have been and if you really pay attention where in some pretty low tax brackets if you look throughout time. So, now could be advantageous to some people to really develop some strategies to take advantage of this low tax bracket period for themselves because permanent doesn’t mean too permanent as we just discussed. Depending on what happens, the next administration, things could not become permanent.

 

Speaker 1:

So I mean, one of the things Roth conversions has been really on the radar for many people for the last number of years because to your point of the historical tax lows, so now you do have some time to Roth over time for at least a couple more years anyway, until what, ’28 or ’29 potentially.

 

John:

Yeah, so Roth conversions is definitely something we implement for clients, and while this is going to be in place for the next few years. Maybe we get a little bit more aggressive and I think we’re going to touch on it a little bit more in the podcast. We’ll talk about some of the pitfalls to avoid with that because there are some new deductions that you want to remain below.

 

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, for sure. Well, Nick, let’s have you just jump in and tackle some of that. So, talk to me about some of the deductions, the standard stuff, some of these other pieces that they locked into place and some things we might want to know and think about.

 

Nick:

So for people that aren’t familiar with the jargon when it comes to the tax or they don’t prepare themselves, essentially people have two options. They can either use the standard deduction, which is what the majority of W-2 earners do especially or they can itemize. So, the reason that people would itemize historically is they would have enough expenses maybe through a business, maybe through interest from a mortgage or kids or different things that would allow them to itemize and there’d be a benefit to them from a tax perspective.

 

But when this was originally put into place and the standard deduction was increased, it really shifted it to people being able to just, for the most part, use the standard deduction, which previously about $29,500 for joint, $14,600 for single, and the updated number is going to be $31,500 for joint and then $15,750 for single. So, it’s bumped up a little bit. Years ago, it was lower, and so there would be a lot of people that would get caught between the standard and the itemized, but it is a benefit for quite a bit of people.

 

Speaker 1:

Yeah. I mean, there’s some decent numbers here we’re talking about. When you take the standard deductions, it’s going to be hard to get there, but you could really make a big dent. We’ll talk about some of the add-on deductions as well here in a second. Does the SALT cap change a lot of things for you guys in Florida? I’m not sure versus other states like New York or California, New Jersey, and I guess maybe to clarify, John, what is the SALT cap and can you break that down a little bit?

 

John:

So I’ll punt this to Nick. He just actually did this with a client. So, he can give a personal story, which is probably better than me.

 

Nick:

Yeah. So, the SALT cap is really state and local tax. It is or historically has been much more relevant in states that have higher property tax and/or state income tax. So, a lot of the northeast states, really just a lot of states in general. Here in Florida, we don’t necessarily run into this a ton, however, we do have quite a few clients that do the snowbird thing.

 

Speaker 1:

Yeah, sure.

 

Nick:

So they have to incorporate taxes in other states and that thing. So, the reality is that it had previously been a benefit for people that were paying a large state income and/or property taxes. They could use it to offset the tax that they paid against their federal income. I guess when the legislation was changed, I think it was like 2017, 2018, they had reduced that SALT cap to $10,000. So, that really had an impact from the perspective of especially high income earners in states that had those different taxes that were applicable. It did cause a decently effective increase in taxes for them.

 

So, with the good old lobbying that’s done, they went ahead and increased that from the $10,000 that’s been in place for the last five, six years to $40,000 cap for incomes below $500,000. So, although we don’t see it here, we have recently had some clients moving into homes that do have pretty significant property taxes. Although they’re not paying state income tax, the level of the property taxes where they’ve gotten with the run-up in real estate around this area, it has become a little bit more relevant than it was previously.

 

Speaker 1:

And so that could make a difference. So, again, you want to make sure that of all these changes that are potentially there, you’re talking with your financial professional and your CPAs and working together on making sure that you’re being as effective as possible. So, John, you punted that one back over to Nick. I’ll give you this one, the senior deduction. There was a lot of talk, obviously, a lot of campaigning on just getting rid of taxes on social security. They did their bartering and their deals and they came up with this senior citizen deduction. I mean, it’s not bad for a number of years. It’s like you’re not paying social security taxes, but it’s a little confusing for folks. So, can you break down some of the data on that?

 

John:

Yeah, so it was initially discussed as, “Hey, we’re going to eliminate social security tax.” This has come up a little bit with some clients asking, “Hey, did they get rid of it?” And the answer is, your social security still is taxed, but if you’re above the age of 65, you do get what they call a senior citizen deduction. That’s $6,000 per person, $12,000 married filing jointly, and there are some income limits to it. The single is $75,000 and the joint is $150,000. So, I would say over the last few months, we have been doing quite a bit of planning to make sure people stay below these thresholds to maximize the deduction and when we’re doing our projections for this year and upcoming years, for some people, it’s a big difference.

 

It’s a nice little benefit for these retirees who unfortunately over the last few years are really impacted with inflation. I mean, the cost of everything is up. I know CPI recently, I think last year was like 2 to 3% or something, which doesn’t feel like that, but if you’re on a fixed income, this is a pretty big deal. So, it’s nice to see some of these retirees get some relief, but especially with this one more than others, I think if you can stay below those income thresholds, now’s the time to do it because as of now, they’re expiring in 2028. So, you really only have about two or three years to really take advantage of this.

 

Speaker 1:

Be effective. Yeah. I mean to your point, Nick earlier was talking about the $31,500 for the standard, and then you slap another $12,000 for married, right? Then you slap another $12,000 on here. I mean, that’s pretty hefty, right? So you could get really efficient with this. It’s just a matter of making sure that you’re, again, jumping in and taking advantage of it while you can. Any thoughts on that, Nick?

 

Nick:

Yeah, no, just like anything else, what you can see a little bit with some of these changes are that there’s certain gaps that it’s stepped in to help with. The reality is a lot of times it’s going to be people that are middle, upper middle class, but from a tax perspective, so if they can keep their income under the 150 for a joint household, that tends to be a middle, upper middle class family.

 

Speaker 1:

Well, it’s funny you say that because there was so much argument about, “Oh, they’re going to do stuff for just the wealthy,” but a lot of the changes that were put in on the Big Beautiful Bill really actually do help lower and middle class like these. So, I mean, I think there’s some good benefits to the bill for everybody. There’s some things that obviously are a little weird too.

 

Nick:

Oh, for sure.

 

Speaker 1:

You got to be effective with it.

 

Nick:

Yeah, yeah, for sure. The devil’s always in the details. Absolutely. That’s the case with any legislation that is this large and this comprehensive. But those are the standard deduction and the senior citizen deduction are definitely two that are going to have a pretty substantial impact on a large group of people.

 

Speaker 1:

John, I’m going to go back to you for a minute because we were talking about the Roth earlier. We tossed that in there at the beginning piece there. Again, clearly, this is a good time to think about the fact that it is still alive for a little bit. So, again, Rothing over time is back on that table as we talked about, and so that may be a really effective part of your strategy. You do not want to ignore it because it still could be a limited window.

 

John:

Correct, yeah. So, definitely that’s one thing we’re looking at currently is what’s the right amount of Roth conversions to be doing at this time. So, it is a great time to-

 

Speaker 1:

Any traps in there? Any pitfalls we should be aware of?

 

John:

Yeah, so I was going to say there’s definitely a good time to be aggressive with it, but with this new senior citizen deduction, if you’re doing some conversions, you want to make sure you stay below those thresholds to take advantage of that additional $6,000 per person. So, now is a great time to be aggressive with this, but at the same time, you want to be cautious because there are some things you could be missing out on if you get too aggressive. So, like we’ve always said, look at the plan, talk to your CPA, talk to your financial advisor. One of the most important things going into retirement is avoid unnecessary taxes. So, it’s just an eroding factor on your money. So, if you can avoid it, that just helps you overall.

 

Speaker 1:

Well, people tend to stay confused if we don’t do this about the whole brackets and the steps anyway, right? Because I think a lot of people think, “Oh, I’m in the 22% bracket. That stayed. Yay, cool. I’m still there. I don’t have to go up,” but every dollar is taxed at that and that’s not how it works. That’s what I think confuses people. So, when you’re talking about maximizing your Roth or something like that, you want to maximize those steps in that bucket, if you will. So, that you just don’t pop into the next bracket if you can. Is that accurate?

 

John:

Correct, yes. You definitely want stay within the bracket, not really jump up, and sometimes it’s okay to jump up as long as you understand how much-

 

Speaker 1:

Yeah, not every dollar is going to be at 24 if you popped up to 24.

 

John:

Correct, yeah. I mean, we have some clients that are doing some Roth conversions from an inheritance standpoint, so they look at it and say, “Well, I’ll pay 22 so my kid doesn’t have to pay 30, whatever, whatever it is.”

 

Speaker 1:

Right, yeah.

 

John:

Depending on your situation, you really want to pay attention to what bracket you’ll be, what your effective rate is, and just don’t do it willy-nilly. You want a strategy.

 

Speaker 1:

Yeah, if you have $1 million you want to convert from a traditional 401 over to a Roth, you want to make sure that you’re not going bracket busting on that, right? Don’t do it all at one time. Again, Roth over time, right? That’s the conversation piece there. So, what else is of note in the bills, guys? Nick, what’s some other things that jumped out at you?

 

Nick:

Yeah, I think it’s definitely less applicable for many people, but they did bring back bonus depreciation for… It’s typically used by small businesses or landlords, oftentimes applies to qualified business expense or rental property purchase. For example, it can have to do with vehicles, large equipment where a company can accelerate the depreciation into the year, instead of spreading it out over multiple times, which can help offset if they’re having a really good year from an income perspective or just bring down the taxes in general.

 

From the standpoint of a couple of other things, I’ll have John speak to the EV credit because he took advantage of pretty much all the EV stuff that you could. But one of the deductions, additional deductions that they had put in place is for auto loan interest deduction. So, it’s an above the line. It applies to cars purchased in 2025 or later, and the car has to have final assembly in the US.

 

Speaker 1:

That’s a funny one right there. It’s like how much of that this qualifies, right? So what’s final assembly mean? Is there a percentage break?

 

Nick:

There’s definitely cheat sheets out there. Ask your local AI machine.

 

Speaker 1:

Or dealership I suppose.

 

Nick:

Yeah, yeah, the dealers will definitely know, but once again, there’s an income threshold on that. So, income above $100,000 won’t qualify. From a charitable giving standpoint, there is an above the line deduction for people that do not itemize. So, $1,000 per person or $2,000 for married filed and jointly.

 

Speaker 1:

It’s not a lot, but I mean it’s still something, especially in the season of giving, right? It’s above the line. So, give some money.

 

Nick:

Yeah, exactly.

 

John:

Better than nothing.

 

Speaker 1:

Yeah, exactly.

 

Nick:

For sure.

 

Speaker 1:

Yeah, for sure. Well, what about that EV thing, John?

 

John:

Yeah, so the vehicle EV credit went away at the end of September, so that one can no longer be used. So, that was if you bought new, there was a tax credit you could obtain and then if you bought used, there was something you could actually get as well depending on the value of the car. If you were actually leasing, basically, the dealership got the credit, which would hopefully reduce your payment depending on how good you are at negotiating.

 

Speaker 1:

Got you.

 

John:

But the big one that we’ve been talking to clients about, and I did myself, which Nick was referencing, was solar panels. So, after 12/31/2025, you will not get that 30% reduction for solar panel installation on your house.

 

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it might not be enough time now, huh? I wonder if you could get that done.

 

John:

It depends how quick your contractor is. I’ll tell you, by the time I agreed to mine, I thought it’d be about a month out and I think within two to three weeks, they got me on the calendar and put it in. So, I had mine in much faster than anticipated, which I was happy about, but it’s a 30% tax credit. If you put some solar panels on the roof, it just has to be installed by 12/31. It doesn’t have to pass inspection or anything as far as I know. It needs to be installed by that date. But I’ll tell you, for those that are comparing this, I just got my first bill from the energy company and there still is a fee to be on their grid.

 

In Florida here, apparently with these hurricanes, there’s additional fees that we’re getting charged to build the grid back up and to pay for the emergency services. A funny conversation with the person, I said, “Well, when it’s built back up, does this go away or whenever we’re done paying for the cost of the emergency services?” Yeah, that’s a good question.

 

Speaker 1:

That’s a question.

 

John:

Well, let’s take a look at that.

 

Speaker 1:

On ours here in North Carolina, we have storm repair tax or whatever. It’s been on there for a number of years now, and it’s like, but when the storms are repaired, what then? Ongoing storm.

 

John:

I’m like, “Okay, so this is just an ongoing bill-“

 

Speaker 1:

Pretty much.

 

John:

… regardless of my usage that I’m doing here.

 

Speaker 1:

Another way for them to just hit us with something and go, “Oh, but it’s necessary.” Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, final one here I thought was interesting was the no tax on tips one, right? Might not affect necessarily your client base, but maybe their kids or grandkids, especially a lot of service industry in Florida. So, no tax on tips up to 25 grand, I think, and that’s temporary as well, but that could be interesting. Any final thoughts as we go to wrap this up guys? Anything, Nick, on something we should do now or be effective as the year’s winding down?

 

Nick:

I mean, I wouldn’t say that there’s a lot to do before the end of the year when it relates to this. I think this is a good example though, and one of the conversations that we have with people is that just because a certain strategy is best now doesn’t mean it’s going to be best in 5 years or 10 years or 15 years. So, when you see a bill like this and with the different changes, something’s becoming permanent, something’s changing, new rules that are built into sunset, it just shows you how important it’s to plan, to build in flexibility, have options both now or later on in retirement, have different buckets of money and really just have a strategy moving forward so that you can benefit no matter what’s happening.

 

Speaker 1:

All right. John, final thoughts from you?

 

John:

Not too much. I think we hit mostly everything. I think just being aware of where we are. Historically, tax brackets to me is something to take a look at because I think part of this new bill added, I think, 2.4 trillion of new debt over the next 10 years and I think 4 trillion increase in debt ceiling. So, there’s a lot of-

 

Speaker 1:

Future tax liability.

 

John:

There’s a lot of trillions getting created here. So, just be wary of what’s down the road. So, it’s good to just take a look at your overall strategy.

 

Speaker 1:

Yeah, good point. Timelines, definitely got still a couple of years left, but just be effective and get on it as soon as possible because we all know time just zings it right by. So, if you’ve got some questions, need some help, reach out to the team at pfgprivatewealth.com That’s pfgprivatewealth.com and have a conversation with John and Nick and the whole team today and just get started. Don’t forget to subscribe to Retirement Planning Redefined on Apple or Spotify or whatever podcasting app you enjoy.

 

You can find all that information again at the website as well or check the show links. There’s some just stuff in the descriptions there. So, pfgprivatewealth.com. Guys, thanks for hanging out. Appreciate it. Hope everybody has a great holiday season and happy Thanksgiving everyone. We’ll see you next time here on the podcast.

 

Ep 22: Case Study- Implementing Roth Conversions

On This Episode

We spent last podcast talking about what exactly a Roth conversion is. Today we will examine a financial plan and see how implementing Roth conversions can potentially improve this situation.

 

Case Study Before Implementing Strategy:

Dual income Household: Ages 55 & 53 

  • Existing Accounts:
    • $500k Pre-Tax 401k Funds
    • $25k Roth IRA Funds
    • $50k Cash
    • Mortgage on the home – paying extra on mortgage ($250/m) (5% rate on 30 year loan, 10 years in)
  • Income:
    • Person 1: $110k
    • Person 2: $60k
  • Current Savings strategy:
    • Total Joint Savings 18% of income ($30.6k/yr.) – all into pre-tax
    • Each person has 3% company match for pre-tax ($5.1k/yr.)
    • Total being saved: $35,700
      • EE Contributions: $30,600
      • ER Contributions: $5,100

 

New Strategy:

    • Refinance Mortgage to a 15 year loan with significant reduction interest rate lowers total monthly payment, allows for $250/m extra payment recapture & additional $150/m savings
    • New Total being saved: $40,500
      • 401k EE Contributions: $21,400
        • Pre-Tax: $15,900
        • Roth: $5,500
      • 401k ER Contributions: $5,100
      • Roth IRA Contributions: $14,000
    • Person 1 strategy: EE Total: $23,600, ER Total $3,300
      • EE Pre-Tax 401k Contribution: $11,100 (10%)
      • EE Roth Contribution: $5,500 (5%)
      • ER Pre-Tax 401k Contribution: $3,300 (3%)
      • Max Roth IRA: $7,000
    • Person 2 strategy: EE Total: $11,800, ER Total $1,800
      • EE Pre-Tax 401k Contribution (No Roth Available): $4,800 (8%)
      • ER Pre-Tax 401k Contribution: $1,800 (3%)

 

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More Episodes

Check out all the episodes by clicking here.

 

Disclaimer:

PFG Private Wealth Management, LLC is an SEC Registered Investment Advisor. Information presented is for educational purposes only and does not intend to make an offer or solicitation for the sale or purchase of any specific securities, investments, or investment strategies. The topics and information discussed during this podcast are not intended to provide tax or legal advice. Investments involve risk, and unless otherwise stated, are not guaranteed. Be sure to first consult with a qualified financial advisor and/or tax professional before implementing any strategy discussed on this podcast. Past performance is not indicative of future performance. Insurance products and services are offered and sold through individually licensed and appointed insurance agents.

Here is a transcript of today’s episode:

 

Marc: Hey, gang. Welcome into another edition of The Retirement Planning Redefined Podcast with John and Nick from PFG Private Wealth. Mark Kelly in here along for the ride as we talk investing, finance and retirement with the guys. And this week, actually, we got sort of a follow-up to our prior podcast. We’re going to talk about implementing … Really a case study about implementing Roth strategies into your plan, some things to think about there. Again, if Roth conversions are on your mind, this is a great podcast for you. And as always, if you’ve got questions or concerns, let the guys know. Reach out to them at PFGPrivateWealth.com. John, what’s going on this week, man? How are you?

 

John: I’m good. I’m good. Nick still hasn’t taken me up on that race offer, but I picked up some yoga in the meantime.

 

Marc: Oh, okay.

 

John: So, I’m doing well.

 

Marc: All right. So rowing and yoga. After a couple of weeks, you should be lean and mean and you should be ready to roll.

 

John: I’m trying. I’m trying to get in shape for when I go back out in public.

 

Marc: Did you get the quarantine 15?

 

John: Yeah. A lot of Oreos eating over here.

 

Marc: Oh, yeah. I hear you. Nick, how are you doing, bud?

 

Nick: Pretty good. Pretty good. Yeah, John’s definitely going to have to spend a little bit more time rowing before he can catch up. I’ve got a month head-start on him.

 

Marc: Oh, okay.

 

Nick: And luckily, the irony for me is because I’ve been forcing myself to get out I’ve actually been losing weight, which is kind of nice.

 

Marc: Oh, nice.

 

Nick: And going out to eat a little bit less. It’s funny when you see what kind of difference that makes, for sure.

 

Marc: Yeah. It really does. And everybody has their vice. Oreos, as John was mentioning. Everybody’s got their vice. Yeah, during the quarantine, in lockdown, I certainly was no stranger to my own vices as well. And I was like, “Yeah, this isn’t good. I’m getting fat.” Not happy about it so I’m right there with you, John. Wasn’t Oreos but just as bad.

 

Marc: Anyways, let’s jump into our topic this week and talk about this case study, really, and ways it helps you see implementing how a Roth conversion may or may not work. Nick, take it away. Give us a quick breakdown on what this is and just walk us through it.

 

Nick: Yeah. What we wanted to do with this session is kind of mix it up a bit where … One of the things that we found just communicating with people, especially in the classes that we typically do is when we walk through almost a little bit of a case study and give a sample example of a household, what they have in assets, what they have in income, how they’re currently saving and the things that we can do with pretty minor changes within the structure available to really try to improve their overall situation and planning.

 

Nick: The scenario that we had put together was a dual-income household, ages 55 and 53.

 

Marc: K.

 

Nick: And their existing accounts were pretty heavily dominant to the pre-tax side. Half a million dollars in pre-tax 401K funds. They had about $25,000 in Roth accounts, $50,000 in cash between checking and savings, 30-year mortgage … About 10 years in to a 30-year mortgage. And they were paying an extra $250 a month towards the mortgage to try to get it paid down.

 

Nick: One of the most common questions that people have when they come in to see us or come into a class is, “Hey, I’m saving. I’m doing a good job with saving. But am I saving in the right area? Should I be paying this extra money towards the mortgage, et cetera?” The breakdown in income was person one, $110,000, person two, $60,000 of income. So, total household income of about $170,000. And the reality is that both of them were getting a company match into their 401K and they were saving … Between the two of them, they’re saving essentially 18% of their income but they’re putting it all into pre-tax accounts. The Roth accounts that they have on their balance sheet are essentially accounts that they’ve had for a long time. They funded it early on and then at a certain point they got phased out because they made too much in income.

 

Nick: Their main question or, I should say, potentially goal when they came to us was, “Hey, again, we have a good income. We’re living comfortably. We live within our means. We save a good amount of money. But are we doing it the right way?” One of the first things that we did was evaluate the mortgage and, really, what we’ve seen in John’s work on these quite a bit with a few different clients is that mortgage rates have obviously dropped in the last …. These clients were 10 years in so mortgage rates have dropped. And they went ahead and spoke to their credit union and they were able to refinance. One of the things you always want to look into is try to keep down closing costs, et cetera. And they were able to reduce the payment.

 

Nick: And so, really, with rates where they are, they were able to go from having 20 years left on their mortgage to refinancing to a 15-year mortgage, which is something that they felt much more comfortable with. When we discuss mortgages, we always have the conversation of pure finance decisions versus a comfort level as well. They were able to reduce their monthly principle and interest payment by $150 a month over their 30-year. Essentially, what we’re able to do is we’re able to recapture the $250 a month that they were paying extra towards the mortgage to try to shorten it, take five years off the mortgage with the refinance and save an additional $150 a month. Really, we’ve got a $400 a month savings plus we shaved five years off the mortgage automatically. The goal being how do we redeploy that money?

 

Nick: John, any tips for people when they’re looking for refinancing on the mortgage and some things to look into?

 

John: Yeah. One thing, you just want to analyze what the rates are, what you’re currently at. I know a lot of people use the rule of thumb of basically if you can lower it by one percent it might be a good idea to at least look into it, and that’s where we start is look into it depending on what rates are and what your current rate is and then work with an advisor or some type of mortgage specialist to evaluate exactly, does this make sense for me? A decent website just to see where rates are at is BankRate.com. Just be wary putting your name into anything because we have had some people where they … “I put my name into this. I’m getting bombarded with phone calls from everybody.” BankRates is a good place to view but ultimately, you definitely want to work with someone and just figure out what’s best for your situation.

 

Nick: For sure. From there … Again, part of the emphasis for us, and I know that a lot of our listeners and our clients have heard us talk a lot about the importance of balancing … Trying to create some sort of balance or equity in portfolios from the standpoint of we want to diversify future taxation and current taxation. With this client, they were very heavy on the pre-tax. Half a million in pre-tax, only $25,000 in Roth dollars. Client one, essentially their plan at work allows for Roth 401K contributions where client two, their plan does not allow for Roth contributions. That’s one of these things where sometimes households we’ve seen when there’s a dual-income household they try to make everything even and it’s not always the best strategy when we look at it from a global standpoint.

 

Nick: The other thing that we’ve seen people not necessarily consider or quite realize or understand is that when their employer is making a match contribution for them, those match contributions are pre-tax contributions so there’s additional money going in. Previously, for the household, they were contributing on their own about $30,000 a year into retirement accounts and they were getting about $5,000 a year of company contributions. And now, after the refinance, what we’re actually able to do is increase the amount that they’re saving.

 

Nick: One of the first things that we’ll look at for clients is the income test on whether or not they have the ability to contribute to an individual Roth IRA account. This household came in underneath the limits, which means … And they’re over the age of 50, which means that all of them are able to contribute $7,000 a year into a Roth IRA account. The benefit, obviously, of having an individual IRA account is that they’re going to have some more flexibility on the investment options that they have and if they want to work with us and have us invest the money for them, they have that option. Whereas when they’re dealing with accounts that are strictly held at their employer they’re required to use the funds that are inside of there.

 

Nick: Previously, again … And I know it gets a little confusing in this sort of format, but essentially they were saving $30,000 a year pre-tax. Their employers were putting about $5,000 a year pre-tax. So, about $35,000 a year pre-tax into accounts and then another $3,000 a year into their mortgage, extra. Now what we’ve done is we’ve said, “Okay, we’re able to recapture those dollars from the mortgage and the total amount that’s going to be saved has increased up to $40,000 a year, which is a nice jump.” That breakdown is going to be $14,000 between the two of them into Roth accounts, $7,000 each. The employer contributions are staying the same, so that’s still a little over the $5,000. But client one, because they have access to both pre-tax and Roth options in their 401K, they’re going to put a little less than $16,000 a year into the pre-tax and about $5,500 into the Roth per year.

 

Nick: What we’ve done, in this case, is where previously they weren’t putting any money into Roth accounts, they’re not approaching $20,000 a year of Roth contributions that they weren’t completely aware of how to be able to take advantage of that. And again, we think that that’s a super important step to be able to build in diversification to not necessarily … If a conversion down the road makes sense for them, they can do a conversion. But if we can do it up front, take advantage of the low tax rates that we are currently in in this current environment and not have to worry about future brackets from the standpoint of dealing with conversions, this is something that really allows them to start to build up their Roth funds.

 

Nick: John, do you want to talk a little bit about … From the standpoint of how we might adjust their actual holdings and risk allocation in a Roth versus the traditional funds?

 

John: Yeah. One thing that you want to look at when you’re looking at allocation, overall funds, it’s typically … And I say typically because everyone’s situation is different. You want to be more aggressive or take a little more risk in the Roth IRA or Roth 401K accounts because that has more potential for growth so that gives you a little bit more, again, potential to have more money down the road in a Roth bucket, tax free.

 

Nick: Yeah. We like to try to capture that upside, especially because when you look at it from the standpoint of the total amount of funds when you look at the overall nest egg, the money that’s in the Roth is a lot less money so we feel a little more comfortable taking a little bit more risk with those dollars because it’s a much smaller chunk of the pie. And then we dial back the risk on the pre-tax dollars because that’s a bigger piece of the pie and try to create some balance. And for anybody that may have gotten tripped up with some of the details, because we know there are a lot of moving parts in this, we will have the breakdown in the show notes to be able to walk you through to check that sort of situation out; to see if something like that might make sense for you.

 

Marc: Okay. All right. Absolutely. Definitely a little bit different this week on the podcast, but it’s certainly and interesting way to take a look and see about how different strategies can be implemented into unique scenarios and help things along. As Nick pointed out, follow along with the show notes. They’ll have a break down in there for you, as well, on that. And anything else we need to wrap up with this week on implementing this case study that we were talking about?

 

Nick: I would say that the biggest thing is just for people to make sure that … Again, where people will often times analyze the decisions that they’re making from an investment standpoint is with the sorts of holdings they have and not necessarily with the types of accounts that they have. Just making sure that the methodology that you’re using and how to save and put money into accounts is something that you’re looking at and looking into, whether it’s with your employer, asking, “Hey, do we have a Roth 401K option in our plan?” And if not, getting a few people together to try to push for something like that can really open up options for you. That sort of process is always important.

 

Marc: All right. There you go. All right, folks. Great episode here this week on Retirement Planning Redefined. Hopefully you enjoyed this case study; a bit of a break down and look into implementing Roth strategies. Again, follow along with the show notes on the website. Go to PFGPrivateWealth.com, click on the podcast page. That’s PFGPrivateWealth.com and then you’ll see the podcast page. Click on that and you can follow along in the episodes. And, of course, subscribe to us if you have not yet done so on Apple, Google, Spotify; whatever platform you like to use for your podcast needs. And if you do have questions, if you do want to talk about a conversion or implementing a strategy, reach out to John and Nick. Let them know you want to chat by calling 813-286-7776. That’s 813-286-7776, serving the Tampa Bay area. Get on the calendar, have a chat with them.

 

Marc: Please, before you take any action you should always check with a qualified professional like John and Nick at PFG Private Wealth. And with that, guys, we’ll say goodbye this week. Hope you guys have a great week. Stay safe, stay sane and all that good stuff. For John, Nick, I’m Mark. We’ll talk to you next time here on the show and we’ll see you later on Retirement Planning Redefined. 

Ep 21 : Roth Conversions

On This Episode

With our tax brackets being at historically low rates, many people are looking at implementing Roth conversions in their plan. John and Nick will explain what exactly this concept is and how this may be able to save you some dollars on taxes in the future.

 

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Disclaimer:

PFG Private Wealth Management, LLC is an SEC Registered Investment Advisor. Information presented is for educational purposes only and does not intend to make an offer or solicitation for the sale or purchase of any specific securities, investments, or investment strategies. The topics and information discussed during this podcast are not intended to provide tax or legal advice. Investments involve risk, and unless otherwise stated, are not guaranteed. Be sure to first consult with a qualified financial advisor and/or tax professional before implementing any strategy discussed on this podcast. Past performance is not indicative of future performance. Insurance products and services are offered and sold through individually licensed and appointed insurance agents.

Here is a transcript of today’s episode:

 

Speaker 1: Hey everybody. Welcome in to this edition of “Retirement Planning – Redefined” with the team from PFG, private wealth serving you in the Tampa Bay area. John and Nick once again with me on the show, as we talk investing, finance, and retirement. Nick, buddy, how’s it going? How you doing, man?

 

Nick: Pretty well. Pretty well. Just still kind of moving through this pretty crazy time, but no complaints. Pretty fortunate overall.

 

Speaker 1: Good. Good, good, good. John, how you doing, my friend?

 

John: Doing good. Doing good. Recently purchased a rower. Nick sold me on it. He got one about a month ago, and he’s been ranting and raving about it. And I joined the club. So, done a couple of sessions and excited to do a little more.

 

Speaker 1: A rower. So it’s like an exercise machine, like one of those rowing, or actually going out and rowing in a boat?

 

John: No, no. Rowing in my garage, an exercise machine.

 

Speaker 1: Gotcha.

 

John: Once I get good, I might link up to Nick and we’ll race down some fake river on a video screen.

 

Speaker 1: There you go. We’ll have to set that up. We’ll have to shoot that on Zoom or something. That’d be good.

 

Nick: Yeah, ranting and raving may be a little bit of an overstatement, but.

 

Speaker 1: Just a little?

 

Nick: As to be expected these days.

 

Speaker 1: Gotcha. Well, there you go. Well, hey, at least you’re exercising, doing things to stay fit. It’s good for stress and all that kind of stuff as well. So, always good.

 

Speaker 1: Well, listen. Today on the topic, basically we’re going to talk about Roth conversions. If you determined a Roth was right for you, are you interested in converting if we’re going from a traditional to a Roth? Things of that nature. So, we’ll just jump in and start talking about it here today on the podcast. John, let’s kick it off with tax liability. If you’ve determined that a Roth is right for you and you are interested, let’s talk about some of the key components to maybe consider in tax liability would certainly be one of those.

 

John: Yeah. Yeah. Just understanding how a Roth conversion works. When you convert a traditional IRA to a Roth IRA, you pay income taxes at your current tax rate, and in return for that, you’re getting tax-free withdrawals during retirement. And we’ll talk about different strategies with that as we go on on this. But just to give an example, let’s say someone’s taxable income is $100,000, and they meet with their advisor and decided it’s a good idea to do some type of conversion. They say, hey, let’s go ahead and convert $50,000 of your traditional IRA to a Roth. Your new taxable income for that given year is $150,000. So that’s how it would work from a tax liability standpoint. Whatever amount you’re converting ends up being added to your taxable income for that given year.

 

Nick: Yeah. And the biggest thing we like to just remind people when they do a conversion is they want to make sure they have the money off on the sidelines to pay that tax. They don’t want to do it with the converted money, especially if they’re under 59 and a half.

 

Speaker 1: Okay. All right. So, with some of the monies and stuff like that, you want to, again, make sure you’re having those conversations, to the guys’s point. So what kind of strategies should we employ to kind of work our way through this? Kind of like the lump sum approach, we do it over time? There’s lots of conversations out there about ways to go about a conversion.

 

John: Yeah. So one of the things that we do, we focus quite a bit on retirement planning. And when we do that, we’re able to actually model out and estimate what someone’s going to pay in taxes throughout their retirement. And we have certain scenarios where someone might go ahead and retire early. And let’s say, they retire at 62, and they don’t really have much income coming in other than maybe lowered social security amount or they have some non-qualified, basically non retirement assets that they don’t have to pay income taxes on. And we would look at that. There could be a period from 62 to 72 where they’re not paying much in taxes.

 

John: So what we’ll do is we’ll develop a strategy over that five to 10-year period where we’re actually converting the traditional IRA in increments throughout that period of time to really take advantage of that period of time where they’re in a lower tax bracket.

 

John: Well, if you look at that through the life of someone’s 20, 30-year time horizon, that can make a big difference in their overall tax liability throughout their plan. So it’s a nice thing to be able to look at and say, hey, what am I going to pay in taxes? And how can I take advantage of paying less ultimately overall? I know I’ve been talking a lot here. I’ll let Nick jump in on kind of the flexibility of having different buckets of money, whether it’s pretax and after tax, going into retirement.

 

Nick: Yeah, really, both fortunately and unfortunately, one of the things that we tell people that they can count on while they’re working and then in retirement is that there will be changes. And usually the area that there’s most often changes are in tax law. And we’ve seen that over the last couple of years. And so, sometimes people get a little bit caught up on the thought process of which is better, pretax or Roth money. And in our minds, and when we say it a lot, but we try to continuously emphasize it, is that it’s important to have options. And so, to have options, you need to adjust how you contribute or take advantage of Roth contributions and that sort of thing, so that not only are you diversifying from an actual investment standpoint, but from an account type standpoint, which means giving yourself flexibility from a tax standpoint as you take out withdrawals. We find that really, really important.

 

John: Yeah. And where that comes into real life is, let’s say someone wants to buy a car in a given year. They don’t want to take out a loan. You don’t want to take out 40 grand out of a taxable account. That’s really going to increase your tax liability, where if you had some Roth money, you might say, hey, I don’t want to pay any more taxes. I’ll just pull it from that. Or it could be some type of health emergency where it’s unexpected and you’re pulling 40 to 50 grand out in one pop for whatever reason. So, it’s nice to have that option to avoid paying unnecessary taxes.

 

Speaker 1: Okay. So, when we’re talking about doing these conversions, obviously clearly taxes right now are lower. And so, that’s something that is appealing to people, but we also have been dealing with this down market. Is that another component that should be obviously considered? And what’s your thoughts from a conversion standpoint with that in play?

 

John: Yeah. And everyone’s situation is different, and this is something that, this recent downmarket, some people took advantage of, where basically, the market dropped almost 30%, 40% from the high. And they went ahead and said, let me go ahead and convert my IRA and this lower balance, pay tax on the lower amount, so when it recovers, basically everything’s tax-free moving forward. So, just a quick example of that is, say you had an account that was a $100,000 before the market dropped. Assuming 15% tax liability on that money, and it’s a $15,000 tax hit if you were to pull it out. After a 40% drop, the account balance is 60 grand, and a 50% tax on that is $9,000. So you’re looking at about a $6,000 tax difference at that point in time. But the reason you would do it is obviously after market downturns, just typically recoveries and all that growth that you get is now tax-free moving forward. So, that’s a nice little benefit.

 

Speaker 1: Well, and again, any time you’re thinking about that conversion, always check with your advisor, always talk with an advisor. If you’re not working with one, reach out to John and Nick and have a conversation with them about it. But it’s certainly, even before the whole COVID thing in 2020, it’s just been a very popular conversation point, due to the fact that the tax rates that we’re in have been so low. So again, if you do have questions around, is it a good time to convert, should I convert, things of that nature, make sure you’re running your specific scenario past a qualified professional financial advisor like John and Nick. And of course, you can always reach out to them at (813) 286-7776. That’s (813) 286-7776. Or go to pfgprivatewealth.com.

 

Speaker 1: Okay, guys, another place to consider would be the legacy portion. Is that something we should throw into that mix for converting?

 

John: Yeah. So a Roth IRA is actually a great vehicle to pass on to beneficiaries because they receive it tax-free. So, some strategies that Nick and I have implemented with clients in the past is basically converting it so their heirs can get it tax-free, and kind of this scenario where someone doesn’t necessarily need the IRA money for income today. It’s more of a kind of a cushion for them. And the goal is to pass it on to kids, grandkids, whatever it might be. So, to just kind of give a situation here, client’s 68. Don’t need the money for current income. Tax bracket’s 12%, one of the lower ones. And kid’s, daughter’s, in a 35% tax bracket. So, the strategy that this person is doing is, over a 10 to 15-year period, again, going back to estimating the taxes, they’re converting pieces of the IRA to a Roth. Okay?

 

John: Now you’ve got to remember that retirement really is a 20 to 30 -ear period. So you could do this over 10, 15, 20 years. Okay? So during that 10 to 15 years, they’re basically just making all that IRA money. They’re paying taxes in a lower bracket. It’s becoming tax free. So when they do pass away, their daughter in this situation inherits it tax-free. In this current situation, the daughter is actually in a 35% tax bracket. So you could see it as a big tax savings there, because once the daughter inherits it, it’s all tax-free, versus her paying it at 35%. So, kind of just summary, the client pays the taxes at a 12% tax bracket, daughter inherits it in a 35% tax bracket, but it’s tax-free because of the conversions happening.

 

Speaker 1: Okay. And with the stretch going away, does that make that strategy more appealing at this point? Nick, what do you think?

 

Nick: Yeah, I would say, so previously what would happen if we had these kinds of conversations, in a good scenario, or I would say maybe a pretty typical scenario with what John just outlined is, maybe it’s a widow. And between Social Security and pension houses paid off, etc., so they have good income. They don’t really need to take much from their retirement account. They have a daughter that’s a physician, making a really good income. And the strategy is to pass the money down. Well, previously, they might have said, hey, if we pass traditional IRA money to the daughter, it’s not as big of a deal. Ideally, a Roth would be better, but with the way that stretch IRAs work, she would only have to typically take a small amount each year out, but do it over her lifetime. Now that that money needs to be taken out in a 10-year period versus over the daughter’s lifetime, the tax impact is much more pronounced and harder to navigate.

 

Nick: And so, we’re pretty confident that these sorts of conversations with those changes are going to happen much more consistently over the next couple of years. So, that’s just kind of a good example of why and how some of the recent changes make it important to be able to adapt and be flexible.

 

Speaker 1: No, I definitely agree with you. And obviously, there has been a lot of changes. There were changes to start the year. And then, of course, the COVID changes also altered some things. So, if you’re thinking about or have questions about, again, going over a Roth conversion, if it’s right for you, how you want to implement that into your overall plan, or maybe you don’t have a plan and you need to do all of those kind of pieces, well, reach out to John and Nick at PFG Private Wealth and let them know you want to talk about it. It’s certainly a huge topic point, and it can be a very beneficial component or tool to your retirement planning tool belt, if you will. So, definitely have that chat with them. (813) 286-7776. That’s (813) 286-7776. And don’t forget to subscribe to the show, “Retirement Planning – Redefined” on Apple, Google, Spotify, or whatever platform you like to use for your podcasts.

 

Speaker 1: We’ve made it available for you to find at the website pfgprivatewealth.com. That is pfgprivatewealth.com. A lot of good tools, tips, and resources to be found there as well. And of course, you can always just search it out by typing “retirement planning redefined” on whatever platforming app you choose.

 

Speaker 1: All right, guys, is there anything else we need to address with the Roth conversions this week before we go?

 

John: No, I think we’re good. Appreciate your time.

 

Speaker 1: Yeah. As always, we appreciate you guys stopping in, chatting with us for a few minutes. If you’ve got questions about those Roth conversions, again, reach out to them, folks, here on “Retirement Planning – Redefined.” John, Nick, you guys enjoy the rowing machines, and I’ll be looking forward to that competition coming up soon. And we’ll catch you next time here on “Retirement Planning -Redefined” with John and Nick, financial advisors at PFG Private Wealth.